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Scifi and Fantasy Forum: Sci-Fi and Fantasy General Discussions: Sci-fi/Fantasy lovers come on in!:
Archive through Aug 25, 2000
Archive through Aug 25, 2000
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Hi all you sci-fi/fantasy freaks!
I'd like to use this part of the discussion board for trading cool fantasy and sci-fi booktitles, websites, movies, etc.
If you're a writer like me, I strongly suggest that you visit the interactive story part of this site. I've visited a few interactive stories, and apart from the one on the toril webpage, i think this is the best.
Seeya!
Thanks Silverowl! The interactive story has been a big success and has taken some really fun twists and turns. I'm glad you enjoy it...and I look forward to reading more of your chapters!
Thanks, Master - I'm honoured to think you liked my chapters and my poem.
Do you happen to have any good book titles? I'm desperately running out of reading material!
Posted By:  TheKing Oct 06, 1998 - 09:50 pm |       | Hey silverowl great to see you love fantasy.
What kind of books do you like Silverowl? I tend to read Fantasy series like Wheel of Time (good, but uneven), the Deathgate novels, and Donaldson's Covenant series and "Gap into ..." series (which is Sci-fi). Terry Brooks and Robert Silverberg are favs too.
You can't go wrong with an Orson Scott Card or David Brin novel (read Earth or The Postman...the movie was a tragic adaption, don't let it color your view).
You may want to check out the webzines listed in my Resource Network. There are lots of great original short stories available on the 'net these days.
| Posted By: Asher Oct 09, 1998 - 06:31 am | | Hi there. I was wondering how many people write in the interactive fiction section under several different names. I myself have submitted stories under several names, although usually I use the name Asher. Just curious.
By the way, Silverowl, you've added on to several of my threads and I really enjoy it when a good author adds on to my story. I'm an author myself (Although I'm still only a student) and I get a kick out of seeing what kinds of stories get added on to mine.
Several I suspect from the similar writing style I've seen in several entries. I'm not really sure why...there's no restrictions on how much you write so ???? Maybe you can enlighten me.
I've noticed that when you add to the story, you often expand each thread more than once, carrying one idea along for several entries. This is also fine. In fact I think it's more interesting in many ways because I get to see where you are taking the story, yet you still give good choices so that someone else can diverge from yours.
If you have any short stories or poetry you would like to share, how about posting them in the forum? I've enjoyed reading your interactive entries and would love to see some other stuff!
I myself used write under several different names,
but now I just stick to silverowl, as I am getting to be better known, and I actually have a set name.
It's fun to have a bit of mystery, though. People sometimes react differently to different names, and also, I don't want to seem like a hog.
Some of my first entries weren't very good - I was really just getting the hang of things.
Hope to hear from you guys again.
| Posted By: Asher Oct 15, 1998 - 07:20 am | | Glad to see you all enjoy my thread stretching. I like to carry a story down a certain path but leave several places where someone else can diverge and take the story where they want it go from any point. Basically any place I can offer a choice I do.
I don't think some of my first stories were very good, esp. since I misspelled a few words. (I misspelled thief in one story.) But I think the main reson I used several different "handles," if you will, is because I think, like Silverowl, that people respond differently to different names.
By the way, I'd recommend reading C.S. Friedman's "Coldfire" trilogy. I'm in the middle of the second book, and they're pretty good.
Thanks for all your suggestions, you guys - I look forward to hearing from you.
Just some praise for Edward Scissorhands - it's a wonderful movie, and if you haven't seen it, you should. I'm currently listening to the soundtrack. thanks for putting it in the conservatory, Master.
Don't you hate it how you misspell things and make typing errors!? A famous one of mine is 'THe' instead of 'The' at the start of sentence. Watch out for it!
| Posted By: Kerowyn Nov 24, 1998 - 02:34 pm | | Edward Scissorhands, excellent movie! I loved it myself
Hello there, im a fantasy/sci-fi lover. I wrote in that interactive story thing, a chapter called decisions, it was supposed to be longer, but the computer teacher wanted to lock up the room. I wanna be a fantasy/sci-fi writer, you can say so much with it. Something those nose in the air literature experts dont seem to notice, they just call it lightheaded popular fiction (wich it definetly not is)(well maybe its popular, but not lightheaded, most of the time). I have a sucky fantasy story I have written. Not long, (unless you count the time it has taken me to get as far as i have (11 pages)). does anyone wish to trade storys with me? so that we can give eachother helpfull criticism?
Thank you.
the Panther
Sweden
Why not post some of your story in the forum and get some feedback from everyone? Just go to this topic to find out how.
You can post the whole thing if you want...but would probably need to break it into a few sections (maybe 2 or 3 pages per post would work).
| Posted By: Jester Jun 18, 1999 - 11:13 am | | To Whomever Cares: The Covenant series was difficult to muddle through (I own them all in paperback), but my favorite series, the one that inspired me to write (and still does) is the Shannara series by Terry Brooks. The second in the series, "The Elfstones of Shannara" caught me by the short hairs, and I will never shake my awe of it. Good visuals, good detail, great characters, original plots. Everything outside the Shannara series that I have read by Terry Brooks had disappointed me terribly with their lack of the original pizazz. Pick up a copy of "Sword of Shannara" and let your mind evolve.....thanks....
| Posted By: Nightice Jun 18, 1999 - 03:01 pm | | I must say I have NEVER, E V E R encountered a more unsympathetic "hero" than Thomas Covenant!!!!!
I admit I'm something of a whiner myself, but THIS GUY had me clinging to the ceiling in frustration!
Even after a very short time I was rooting for everybody who tried to kill him...
Since there are more books than I've read, I don't suppose anybody has succeeded.
A shame...:-)))
*LOL* For me, that's what made Covenant fun! Here's this really annoying guy that you don't even like (he doesn't even like himself), yet he's the key to everything. The ultimate anti-hero. The books are very well written though. You may want to check out the Mordant's Need books (Mirror of Her Dreams and A Man Rides Through). The heroine is certainly likeable--plus its a heroine, something you don't get a lot of in Fantasy novels!
The Shannara books are very good. The second series was not quite the masterpiece that the first was, but both are better than the Magic Kindom of Landover books (some nice elements, but not very original).
| Posted By: Antaris Jul 11, 1999 - 03:14 pm | | Some authors out there...? Could you tell me a little about what you are writing about and what kind of characters you use (elves, etc.). How do you do to describe them well?
Thanks in beforehand,
Antaris
Well, I write S&S, High, Traditional, Comic, Religious and Political Fantasy. The majority of my characters tend to be human, and usually I feel as though I'm following behind and just writing what they do. As for any extraordinary or impossible characters, such as elves or dragons (I've used both)--I just consider them human as well.
The important thing is knowing your world well enough, and human nature well enough, that you can see how the latter would react to the former. As Chesterton and Lewis both wrote, Fantasy is wonderful because it puts the familiar in the unfamiliar.
Now, I must confess, when I wrote about the dragon, it was comedic, so I made him "Bob, the Six-Winged Saurian" and he was decidedly fastiduous and human in nature. When I wrote about my fairy (the main character never bothered to learn his name) he was colder, more distant and refined.
Whatever animals or races you do decide to use, however, _please_ for my sake, don't _just_ use a creature because you want to write fantasy. Really think about what their culture is like. Consider why they're in your world at all. Is it more appropriate to your world to create a completely new species? For example, Traditional and High Fantasy will usually deal with the usual set of mythological/fairy tale creatures, while S&S might create newer "creatures."
But the element of the humanoid must be in whatever type of character you are writing for. Everything we do as humans is to understand ourselves, which includes how we came to be (i.e., God) and what we live in (i.e., the world, society, etc.). So unless you in some way make the characters accessable to the audience, usually through some degree of personification, no one's going to be able to get through your book. I mean, who wants to read the story of a budding plant unless the budding plant has feelings, talks, comments on what it's sensing, and so on? Vegetative literature is straight out.
Two more thoughts that might help you in character development are 1) specifics and 2) action. When a person is afraid, don't just say, "She was afraid." But use sensational or experiental specifics. "She could feel a single drop of liquid crawl down her back like arachne's eight sharp needles...The monsterous gears of the clock clicked each second ever louder in her ear" and so on. Of course, it may be aesthetically pleasing to punctuate a series of such specifics with the short sentence, "She was afraid." But be careful of overusing this technique. You may get a lot of groans from your audience.
The second one comes from the Greek schools. I forget where in the Socrates-Plato-Aristotle line up it came from, but by watching _what_ a person does, the reader can figure out what they're feeling or even thinking. For example, "She rushed out of the room, slamming the door behind her," is far more interesting than, "She was angry."
Hope that helps!
Emily
Well, thanks a lot for your informative help, Emily. It was really interesting. :) And yes, I have avoided the trap of "She was afraid" in my story. I just wanted to know how others went through emotional changes with their characters; it's very fruitful to share and discuss these things. It's the only way to learn :).
I'm not too familiar with what you wrote about S&S and high fantasy. Like, are there variatons for the un-initiated (me)? Now don't think I am a freshman in fantasy though, since I've been reading fantasy, history and about weapons from the middle ages for the last eight years :). It's just that categories are a bit confusing for a foreigner sometimes (Swedish). :)
Thanks again,
Antaris (=a character from my story, actually)
Swedish! Wow.... I'm impressed. I couldn't speak Swedish if my life depended on it, let alone attempt to understand idioms in a genre that's only a few decades old.
Just one more thunk on emotional changes...
I've found that the stories I read over and over again are the ones where I'm clued in to the action, meaning it's not a surprise ending. If it's a big surprise, then I usually end up reading it a second time, saying "oh yes, I see the clues now," and then maybe never reading it again. I personally prefer a semi-omniscient voice (read Dickons for a good example of what classic omniscience is) where one skips from character to character (not necessarily repeating the same scene to death, obviously) showing from the best point of view (POV) the situation. A lot of emotion will come from how a character perceives a situation. And a scene done in their voice tells the reader _volumes_ about the character. For example, I start out a scene in one of my stories with "Marguirite was six. Six and a half. She'd been counting." This way you understand what's important to the character, how they think (choppy sentences, diction, grammer use), and how they see what's going on. For example, in this scene with Marguirite, she dies by falling down the stairs. But as she falls, all she's thinking about is what her father's saying above her. Repitition, alliteration and other technical English (or Swedish) tricks will help as well.
What's S&S vs. High or Traditional Fantasy? The lines often seem blurred, but I'll attempt to answer you. S&S stands for Sword and Sorcery. The title pretty much says it all. The focus is usually on an adventuring hero (or two) who rights wrongs, encounters new (even to him) fantastic things/people/places, and usually manages to win via his rapier wit or his brute strength. The tone is often light, the character is often gutsy with minimal character development, and (the more you read S&S...check out trade magazines such as "Adventures of S&S, or Marion Zimmer Bradley's Fantasy Magazine) there's a certain "feel" to most of the worlds created that implies that they all might be somehow connected. S&S is often a fun romp through war and magic.
Traditional fantasy tends to be more fairy tale-ish. "Traditional" characters/creatures will often be used, such as kings and queens, unicorns and dragons, and the diction tends to be more rich than S&S. Retelling or revamping fairy tales also falls under this category, such as Robin McKinley's "Beauty," as well as new fairy tales, such as the first story in Ms. McKinley's "A Door in the Hedge."
For High Fantasy turn to Tolkein. This is going to deal with big, epic stories, large casts, high language, rich world building...all the big guns are pulled out for this subgenre. Usually one only finds it in novel form since this is the only type that will contain it.
Of course, there can be cross-overs, even between science fiction and fantasy (called science fantasy, unsurprisingly). A great example is Paula Volsky's "Illusion."
Hope that helps. God bless!
Emily (who used to call herself after one of her characters, Cassandra D'Ivira until she ran into some trouble with people who assumed unassumable things about the handle....)
| Posted By: Antaris Jul 25, 1999 - 01:44 pm | | Hi again Emily!
I've been slow with my reply on this message board for a while, but now it's time... :)
Firstöy, a huge thanks for such a great help, discerning the variations of fantasy writing styles that there are. It all seems a whole lot clearer now for me and when I go through my mind, it should have been obvious that what I was reading should fall into those categories. :) Well, it's not always so easy, you know. And the tips from your story of "Marguirite" will be prove to be helpful to me in the future. Thanks heaps!
But I knew that there was a difference to what I have been reading over the past years though. For example Lewis' "Narnia"-series (Yes, it has still got it, though I have passed 23!) is so much different in both world description, character and way of telling the story than something from Maggie Furey or similar. I would say that I then prefer fantasy (traditional + high), even with a bit "loosened strings" before pure S&S. - What about you?
What about this Cassandra D'lvira? Who is she, and how on earth did the turmoil with unassumable things eventually found its outcome? :)
Have you written anything that can be viewed? It would be interesting to see some of it. Perhaps it's even here in the story room. I'll have to investigate after I've finsished my typing :).
Take care,
Antaris (Christian)
| Posted By: Emily Jul 27, 1999 - 06:46 am | | Is 23 a defining age for when one must cease peeking into wardrobes and staring hopefully at pictures? Oh, I hope not, or else I've less than a year! ;) And who is Maggie Furey?
Personally, I prefer High and Traditional Fantasy as well as what I term "Political Fantasy" which focuses on governmental systems (rather than viewing them as incidental to the backdrop). I'm also interested in the spin-offs from the old satires (re: Utopia, Gulliver's Travels) that comment on society, philosophy, theology, etc. within the course of the work. "Intellectual Brain Candy," I suppose. Although I enjoy S&S and humerous fantasy!
As for poor, dear Cassandra d'Ivira, she's a character in my rather convoluted but surprisingly traditional (Catholic, specifically) schaema of the divine. She's an Immortal dedicated to the "goddess" (angel, actually, but most of the works take place pre-world-revelation) Ivira who is the protector of outcasts, orphans, wanderers, unaffiliated, etc.. My lovely Cassie, then, is an historian--rather like Calliope (is that the muse?), if the truth be known (ah, classical education at it's mimicked finest?)--of all the "ancient" empires, such as the Dhelian Empire of Ifan the Mute, and the three Clae'onel (Peaceful Ones...hahaha) Empires, and the Gatanean Empire in the interlude when Parn wasn't doing so well, and so on and so forth. She's my voice for high/epic fantasy.
However, when using "Cassandra" as a handle on the net, I found people were assuming that she/I were the posterchild for wicked romance novels and others leered on the screen accordingly. Finding this troublesome, I decided the safest route was my own name that did not imply anything resembling heaving bosoms, but perhaps brought to mind a safe pair of thick spectacles and German braids.
I don't have anything published on the web, nor on this forum, but I did two chapters (towards the bottom if you're looking on the outline) in the interactive story one day when I was feeling particularly uninspired. You can glance at those if you want. I've also got a short story "If We Shadows Have Offended" coming out in Marion Zimmer Bradley's Fantasy Magazine sometime this year.
So how about you? Who is Antaris? What is your story? Do you have something on the web or coming out?
Look forward to hearing from you again!
God bless,
Emily
Hi Emily,
Truly interesting, the way you describe the different worlds, characters and kingdoms which your writings disencumber, Emily. Wow. You have really thought it all through, haven't you? What about those different empires anyway (Dhelian, Parn, etc.)? What's the relationship between them in your fantasy world; are they in alliance with each other and malicious turncoats are trying to taunt them into war? Is there a big danger waiting on the other side of a mountain ridge? You have got my curiosity spinning now. (Clae'onel, eh?) :) :) :)
The handle you used before seemed to have an un-wanting effect, and it must have been a bit annoying. Poor Cassandra! German braids & thick spectacles!? That's a safe trick I should think, even if it would make you think of a librarian from the 30's. "Please be quiet here" she said while pulling her glasses a bit further down on her nose. :)
You asked about the American author Maggie Furey; well, she has written a series called "The magicians tale" (I don't know the English title for the series) and it's about a woman named Aurian, who is to become a magician. But when she arrives at the magician's academy she finds out too late that the supreme magician (don't remember his name; it was a while since I read it) wants to make her his slave, so she runs away. I know it is not a fair review, because what I can remember, it was an interesting plot, and I only read three of the eight books too. But at least now you know a little bit more.
As far as you're not having anything published; you do have finished work to send anyway? It seems that you are a busy person when it comes to writing and discussing, so it would surprise me if you don't have anything finished at all. By the way, how do you build up a mood in a story, say a tension between a murderer and a relative of his victim; meeting each other for the first time? Could you give me any advice? You don't have to, but it would help to get some feedback.
"If we shadows have offended" sounds a whole lot interesting, and I can only imagine what it's about. So it will be out in Marion Zimmer Bradly's (???) fantasy magazine? Great! I don't think we have it here in Sweden though. Let me know when you get your short story published anyway. Just to hear what they thought about it…
Aha! So now it's time to be a little selfish then, to talk about my story. Where should I begin? Well, in short; it's about a young woman named Aithné who lives with a foster family in the peaceful valley of Monsheen, and is exploring both her surroundings and feelings in a natural fashion for her age (20). During the Smoke-feast (like a national holiday) however, her whole world tips over and suddenly all she has known and relied on is turned to ashes and fire when black knights are welling forth over the mountains and frost covered meadows. They burn every cottage and farm in their desperate search for a young woman in her 20's; Aithné. On her escape from the attackers she is rescued by a stranger to her, but it turns out to be an old friend of her real father. His assignment is to bring Aithné safely back to her father's country, but during the adventures and dangers they encounter on their way, he begins to feel affection for her. So it's a romantic fantasy adventure(Wow, a new branch!). :)
I have two pieces which I translated to English to my Australian pen pal, since she got freaked when she knew I was writing). But I think those segments are too long to post here, if you'd like, I could mail one to your own e-mail box.
Antaris is a member of a mysterious nomad people; called the "Storykeepers", whose lives have been devoted to collect legends, stories and folklore from all over the (my fantasy) world. He's a wise older man, wearing the traditional blue garments of the people known as the "Storykeepers". :) Too short descpription, but if I'd write more, Silverowl would probably send a spinning fire ball after me :) :) :).
So there you have it,
I hope you hasten with thy reply.
Christian
| Posted By: Emily Aug 02, 1999 - 12:46 pm | | Christian,
Goodness...pique my curiosity will you? And just when I had picked up Chesterton's Orthodoxy again, highlighter firmly in hand!
The librarian from the 30's isn't too far off from what my driver's license ended up depicting. It's not as bad as some I've had, (my passport photo is abominable. I wasn't in a terribly pleasant mood the day I had it taken and the camera reflected that admirably. Fortunately, I've only shown my passport photo either to conductors who woke me up and PUT me into a not so terribly pleasant mood, or people who laugh at me on a fairly constant basis anyway...) but I label it the photo of a Rumanian Refugee from a Library. It convinces the cops that I'm really a cute, innocent girl who can't count higher than ten so didn't really know she was speeding.... But I digress....
My vanity is duly flattered by your interest in my worlds/empires. And yes, I like to do a lot of world building. Rather like professional make-believe! Actually, the Dhelian, Clae'onel (one of my few concessions to apostrophes in names), and Gatanean/Parn Emps. are technically all in different worlds (I'd go into how my True World/Man Worlds is set up but I think the Master might kick me off) but are connected by the Colosseum in Gatan. Dhelia was the first empire on _any_ world, named after Ifan the Mute's late wife and forged by his monomania. The Parn Empires were next and truth be told I know little about them except that they had knights led by a paladin, take place in the Four Lands of the Elementals, are one of the few worlds numbered by ages (Age of Sundering, etc.) and were the ones most troubled by Tanus (the devil, naturally). The Gatanean Empire rose up when Tanus was in power and sallied forth through the Colosseum to several other worlds forming Commonwealths here and dumping exiles there...which brings us to the Clae'onel who have the most extensive history and present thus far (and ergo are the lucky recepients of my struggling novel).
What eventually became the Clae'onel Empires was originally a bunch of exiled folks from various worlds that Tanus had decided to get rid of. Since Parn is on the opposite side of the True World from Arianja (the name means "sorrow" in Ancient Reyjori) that's where they were dumped. Folks from the same place joined up forming clans who then proceeded to battle for domination. This came to that, several millennia passed as several millennia will in fantasy-time with much history inbetween, and then the Empires rose by means of sheer force (and pretty darn good magic wielding). Three times they rose up, three times were pulled down. Arianja was split into various countries run by mewling "nobles" (Invitiate) and revolution is in the air again when my novel starts.
Hey...you asked.
Re: everything else. I'll have to see if I can't get my hands on one of Maggie Furey's books then. And I do have some finished work, as you correctly surmised. But what is finished is either old and awful or patiently awaiting revisions. The stuff that's well finished I'd rather send out to editors than post, if you understand. I would be more than happy to read your work. Feel free to e-mail me a chapter. Keep in mind, though, that I use Juno and so attachments don't come through well if at all. Romantic Fantasy is one of my other favorite subgenres...so long the romance is tasteful.
As for how a murderer would meet a relative of his victim? (A thoughtful pause as Emily taps her chin and hums.) Well, I think that would depend on whether the murderer feels repentant. I'd choose the murderer for the POV in this. I'm sure his/her thoughts would be far more interesting...unless the relative knows who the murderer is? I'd also do a lot through dialogue, tons of verbal tactic shifts, make the reader hear the crecendo and decrecendo of their speech through the rhythm and inflections. Let them cut each other off mid-sentence. Duel it out. Add in the eye contact. If you want to heighten the scene, heighten the character's awareness of every sense. Suddenly every gesture, from walking away to shifting the thumb splinter-wise across the table becomes significant. If you want tension keep it quiet at first. Load each word, let the reader see each smile. If the character catches his breath, let us know. Since the very idea of a murderer and the victim's relative meeting each other is such a staggering concept as is, the way to heighten it is to juxtapose it with something utterly mundane. Put them together in a public place, or at the relative's funeral, or even better, somebody else's wedding. Juxtapose the image of death with the image of new life. The reader will be gripping the covers _willing_ the murderer away from anything resembling joy. Show that the murderer (or villain) is human and he will become more monsterous. Basically, keep it like real life. The couple sitting next to you on a bus may _not_ be going out...he may have a gun (physical or emotional) to her back. You don't know. The author does. That's the fun part.
But I shall hie me thither before the worthy Master exiles my very name from the SpeculativeVision cosmos. Prithee, write posthaste.
Emily
Hi Emily!
Christian here! I just thought I'd tell you, that I've posted a half a chapter from my book to your mailbox. And I hope that you will give feedback on it, so I know if I'm on the right path with this one :).
P.S. I read in the interactive story too. Great (!) writing. I do wish I could see some more of your written ones :).
| Posted By: Emily Aug 10, 1999 - 09:31 am | | Yay! I shall look forward with great anticipation to getting my e-mail today. And, gee, thanks about the IA-story.
God bless,
Emily
Emily! :)
Do you have anything that you would like to post either here on the "writer's Showcase" or a piece in my mailbox?
Have any of you read Michael Moorcock's series about Elric? What do you think about it?
I read five books in English (paperbacks bought on sale) but even if each book is in itself a closing story with a real end, they are still a part of a continuating story. Does anyone know what happens to Elric after he's been in and around "The Vanishing Tower"? Just curious :)
As for the books then, they are in my opinion very well-written and descriptive, but I wish it was less of the predominating sorcery stuff, though it is sometimes needed or even the very essence of a storyline. A sword that lives? Well, it's original in a way :).
Comments?
Anyone read Dan Simmons books?
I love them!!!
Hyperion,Fall of Hyperion,Endymion,Rise of Endymion,Orphans of the Helix...I loce the first four,I have yet to read the last one...oh well.
| Posted By: TAWM Mar 23, 2000 - 10:09 pm | | READ HYPERION//ALMOST FINISHED WITH FALL OF HYPERION//HAVE ENDYMION AND FALL OF ENDYMION//TREK AND WARS PALE//NEW TO SCI FI//SEEKING HYPERION
| Posted By: Joseph Apr 22, 2000 - 12:49 am | | Hi, I am a year 9 student and I have been world building for most of my life. I started my current world of the baison 3 years ago when I finished an old world after 5 years of working on it. Dispite all this I have trouble writing Fantasy preferring to write about World War III. However I really won't to write a story based on a fantasy world. I was in year 6 when I made my current world which I have renamed The Baison (as its last name was even worse.) Can anyone got any tips on creating a better world? I have just written a 20 page story about World War III and its dire! has anyone got any tipps about writing about historic events? Thanks for reading this (even if its badly written!)
I was just wondering, Has ANYONE read Piers Anthony's Xanth series?
I read them after reading his Incarnations of Immortality series. I really enjoyed the IOI series, but I found the Xanth series a little lacking in depth by comparison - and then I realised (after reading a couple dozen of his books and all those author's notes he puts in) that either he really hates women, or he just doesn't understand them at all, and I went off him.
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