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Posted By: Crowe Jan 26, 2001 - 06:27 pm

Okay, Looks like I win this time.

Someone tell me it's not true. I won't go spoiling it yet for those who haven't seen it. But one of you bbc people tell me our fallen comrade will be back some how.

Please please tell me. Feel free to e-mail me off list here, but I gotta know. I'm tore up.

ARGH!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted By: Lyta Jan 26, 2001 - 06:37 pm

I can't believe it either Crowe... But what a great episode!

Posted By: Crowe Jan 26, 2001 - 09:21 pm

Indeed it was excellent. I can't believe what I saw between Pip and Jothee! What a development eh?

I was reading some reviews n such and I do believe our friend will be back. Remember, Frozen "before the instant of death" .. pretty good clue there. We'll see.

---
Crowe

Posted By: Iznardi Jan 27, 2001 - 09:24 am

SPOILERS FOR SEASON FINALE

I am discussing stuff here you won't want to read until AFTER you've seen the episode . . .

S
P
O
I
L
E
R
S

Well, this was a fantastic but horrifying episode. I had read the BBC page in advance, and so I knew something was going to happen to Aeryn. But I hope Claudia Black hasn't quit the show or been written out of it.

Crowe--I would say we have one speck of hope, which is that they recovered the body. In general, that's an avenue for bringing the character back ("The Search for Spock". When characters are really killed off for good, they are usually blasted out of existence (Kosh in Babylon 5, Boone in Earth Final Conflict, etc.)

Aeryn fell into freezing water and is now in a cryogenics lab, and the medical assistant there has already hinted that the inmates are all accident victions and could be revived, but probably wouldn't survive the process.

So watch the news and see if Claudia Black has taken work elsewhere.

On the up side, I am REALLY glad that Scorpius finally acquired the chip. I thought that was a real weak point in LIARS, that he put such effort into seizing Crichton and then screwed up his opportunity to get the wormhole information.

Now Crichton has innumerable reasons for wanting revenge--and his only route back to Earth (or Urp) is straight through Scorpius. It was also cool that there cryogenics lab has genetic "cousins" to human beings--suggesting that Crichton is somewhat closer to the region of space that Earth (or Urp) occupies.

Major congrats, too, for creating the special effects of Scorpius' invasive chip. What a nasty piece of work! I was really cringing when it slowly moved and contracted through the convolutions of John's brain matter. (And I laughed out loud when he told the doctor, "American politics, Nixon to Clinton. Lose it." Since that's my generation, I couldn't agree more).

For everyone who felt that last week's cliff-hanger was weak: what do you think of THIS week's cliffhanger?

Season premier isn't until March 16th--but a six week wait still beats a three month wait, so I'm happy.

I am going to creat a new topic called "SPOILERS--Speculation on Upcoming Episodes."

iz

Posted By: ZimNova Jan 27, 2001 - 11:40 am

Die Me, Dichotomy......thoughts.
First I looked up *Dichotomy*, Thanks Webster's, it means *Spilt in two*
So we have Scorpy and Scorpy-John, great stuff, make-up and all!
Ben really showed off his acting chops playing this one.

Still though the apparent death of Aeryn brought a tear to my eye
Me a big man, Teamster truck driver and HEY, this is 'Only' a TV show, but I love Aeryn as a member of the cast and as a crew member aboard Moya.
And so does John, Crais, Chiana, Ka D'argo, P'au Zhann, Pilot, even Rygel.
What a tear jerker eh?
I thought during that entire chase through the planet's ice spirals that Aeryn WAS going to shoot John down and he was the one who would be "caught just before the moment of death".
There is no frelling way they can kill off Aeryn Sun!
OK, JMS killed off Talia Winters and others but never Delenn!!!
Sheridan at the last, but that WAS the last, episode 522 [422 in production] (Sleeping in Light).
Much more was happening with this episode including some *new* relationships.
Chiana/Jothee (after the old man? Will D'argo be jealous?)
Did you catch the sparkle in Pip's eye when Jothee spoke about not wanting to be a farmer but remaining a 'free spirit'? That's the same idea that got Chi in trouble with the Nebari elders when we first met her.

Zhann/Stark as spiritual parners/lovers?

Another thing that struck me was how the Henson Co. has increased the quality of the shows production, ie, more bucks per ep.
This episode was loaded with make-up effects and CGI/EFX shots. Vary well done, thanks!

Posted By: The Master Jan 27, 2001 - 12:49 pm

All I can really say is, what the frell? Who thought this was a good idea? And yes Zim...this clifhanger sucks too! But at least this one left me with a big (Aeryn) question. Note how they didn't even bother resolving that scene with D'Argo and John? Like John's never going to speak coherently again...

Cluadia Black had better be miraculously revived next season or I am going to be very ticked off. The funeral was touching. I'm not sure what the significance of Rygel's gift was though--was I supposed to remember what that was? Nevertheless, this is way too lousy of an end for someone like Aeryn. The fact that she's a popsicle is good...the fact that the doctor is dead is bad. We'll see...

Thinking of the doctor, anyone find it questionably easy to kill this species? After all, they ain't born with masks on their faces! First breath of air, boom! Instant death. Nice attempt to create very alien beings (and I really liked that it didn't speak English very much), but a bit of a "reality check" flaw IMHO.

Chiana & Jothee. I have to say PLEASE NO! We still know squat about Jothee, so I have little opinion of him so far (a wasted plot point so far--the hunt for Jothee has been fairly anti-climatic). I felt like it made Chiana seem cheap...Pilot revealed D'Argo's intentions toward her, and she's going to cheat on him with his own son? Huh? I can see Jothee wanting her (like DUH!), but why would she have this sudden interest in him? Maybe its just another "trying to cram too much into this episode" problem--if it was a separate ep. and they expanded on them building the interest I could accept it.

Production quirk: I can't help but feel like this ep. didn't "really" belong as part of the arc. Everything else revolved around the depository. Farscape follows a fairly linear/continuing story pattern anyway, so I'm not sure why this ep is considered part of the arc and not just the next episode. With the "to be continued..." deal at the end, it implies that the season 3 opener is also part of this arc. Wouldn't it make more sense to call the first three eps. one arc, and this ep. and the season 3 opener a two-part cliffhanger?

OK, yeah, I've been pretty negative so far. The Aeryn thing really left me with a bad taste in my mouth so I'm feeling fairly critical.

You're right Zim, lots of great effects and such in this one. The chase was very cool...Aeryn grazing the ice wall looked very realistic. I would have liked them to drop a few more bucks on it to make that sequence even longer.

John's brain...shudder. OK, this put a whole new light on the matter. Knowing there's a chip in his head is one thing, tendrils crawling around in there is something else entirely. No wonder John freaked out! Nasty bit of business that was. My guess: John didn't have his memory of Aeryn or the wormhole tech cut out (and yep, I got a big laugh out of the politics line too!). I found it a little odd that what the doc was probing was which memories were where...from the explanation, I thought it was "we don't know which parts of your brain do what", and the probing would be along the lines of "oops...now I can't see".

I liked the side story with Crais and Talyn. There's a "secret" going on there that's intriquing. One of the questions its raised is who's really running the show? I get the feeling Talyn's telling Crais what to do perhaps more often than the other way around. Remember how Crais said Talyn came to help Moya on his own, and it was Talyn who decided to help them at the depository? Seem's Crais may be just along for the ride! Here's hoping they don't fly off again without exploring that a little more (I'll lose interest if it takes too long to get back to it).

March isn't too long to wait for the new season I guess. At least this time they are going to show repeats of the old episodes to keep the time slot active!

Posted By: Crowe Jan 27, 2001 - 03:16 pm

SPOILER CITY


Jothee/Chianna - I think this is an element to break Chi and D'argo up. Why? Because if they are all happy in pairs, the show looses some of it's dynamic and the fact that there will always be questions of motive where heart strings are concerned. This will drive a wedge back between D'argo and Chi, and Jothee will split giving D'argo the resolve he needed but still leaving Jothee out there as a future plot device. IMHO anywho, That's what I'd do.

I got money that Aeryn will be back. I been scouring the net for everyone else's take on the matter and too many clues were put into place that suggest she'll be back. The fact that she's frozen is a major one.

I hope they don't pull a "Dallas" on us ( Sorry for you young whips who won't remember what I'm talking about ) and all the while they were trying to remove the chip and these images were all part of delusions brought on by that. Please don't do that!

Master, This species of the good Doctor, again IMHO, being so frail to outside contact is entirely plausable. We are lucky that small pocks didn't wipe out the American Indians. If aliens exist, the reason we haven't met them yet is because they are afraid they'll catch something from us. If this alien race has not had significant exposure to other species, or has a low tolerance to bacteria, outside air could easily kill them. This could be why their race has become such great healers, in a quest of some sort to cure their own ills.

Someone pointed out how what are the odds that the doctor would have been the same one that Scorpy used. Let's examine this. They are in the uncharted territory. They've been back to the same planet more than once only a couple of times. On more than one occasion they've either been found by Scorpius, or met someone who's dealt with thim? This implies Scorpius has worked heavily in this area. His Gammick base was also in the area. It stands to reason he picked this area because of it's relative location to the supplies he needs for his work. His cooling rods, his doctor, his "money" in the depository and plenty of people in the form of slaves, that noone would miss if he needed test subjects.

I imagine Scorpius won't last but one or two encounters with John. This is a major flaw in the show for me. The writers did a great job, naturally letting John live and giving him several reasons to want to take revenge on Scorpius. But again, Scorpius has let John go. Knowing how much damage John has done to him in the past. How many times has Scorpy let John slip through his fingers. No, even if Scorpy had a huge character flaw that he "needed" a worthy enemy, I doubt he would have let John go this time. Though if he had even greater plans in mind, this would be a great move. But I doubt he had any alterior motives this time, other than being badly written. I did love it, how tongue and cheek it was. But Scorpy doesn't strike me as the kind of villian who needs John around to make him feel powerful. Again, if it were me, I'd have killed John, and to make sure, left plenty of explosives behind to clean up the mess. But then the show would be over.

My only question is how the frell does Scorpius and his goons find Moya and the gang so fast. I could understand the chance crossings at the Depository, on the planet where John got married etc. Even if it wasn't chance, there were plenty of people there to call Scorpy collect and tell him were our friends were hiding out. But here, with only the Doc and his "Baron-Like" pimp, how did Scorpy find them? I guess with the PK resources, as well as being a brilliant scientist, you could have deduced based on the facts you had that they'd need a doc. And you being Scorpy, and having used the Doc in this area yourself, you could have guessed this is where they'd be. But damnit, Scorpy can't just keep showing up when John's "exposed" like this.

Another bet I'm pretty sure I'll win. John's going to be able to "think" like Scorpy for a while. Know his next move and such which will give Moya and the gang an advantage. Not to mention, I'm pretty sure John is going to exact some Major revenge. Maybe Crais can help? Who knows?

And this Secrete between Crais and Talyn? Is Aeryn his sister? Nah, but what? It seems very important. And I'm guessing it probably goes against what they believe as PK's. I've enjoyed the developement of Crais as a character, tho we haven't seen him much. I believe Aeryn's revival will involve "part" of the secrete being reveiled to give her her own new mission in life. To find the answers. Since she has no place to go, she's really just along for the ride with no direction of her own. This will give her a cause of her own. With D'Argo's resolved, we can concentrate on Aeryn this season and let D'Argo take something of a back seat. Let his love life become a sub plot between shots of John and Aeryn doing their things.

And did I mention someone needs to frelling shoot Stark? Maybe He'll catch Jothee with Chi, decide it's not right and try to kill Jothee and Jothee's too quick for him and they kill each other, then fall out an air lock and into a near by sun? Nah, I'm not that lucky. The trouble they got into this last season, the worst of it, was Stark's fault. In my book, he needs to be ended!

And the gift that Rygel gave Aeryn was the symbol that he's a Ruler, If I remember right. It's what he was wearing when he was having his picture taken.

I've rambled on enough. I've got more thoughts, but I'll save em for a bit.

---
Crowe

Posted By: Iznardi Jan 28, 2001 - 08:11 am

hey, you might not like what the episode did, but then again, these are the longest posts on any topic that i've seen in a while :-)

on scorpius turning up at the medical facility: makes great sense to me. what does scorpius know about crichton?--that john wants the chip out of his head. who can remove the chip?--a talented doctor with a major facility. so scorpius figures, moya is probably heading for the facility that once assisted him with his heat dissipation problem. and then the chip in john's head signals scorpius, confirming that this is true. frell, for all we know, the chip may have been PROGRAMMED to take john to this particular doctor as just one more safe-guard in scorpius' plan to trap john and obtain the wormhole information.

chiana and boy wonder: bah, humbug. but, as aeryn has often said, chiana is a trollop, so i can see her going for jofee.

zhaan and starke: agree with crowe. shoot him. shoot him now.

crais and talyn: the line, i believe, was "Yes, Talyn, I too wish we could have shared the information on this chip with Aeryn Sun. I believe it would have made here the happiest soul among us." i have NO idea what this means, although Crais was discussing family with Aeryn earlier in the episode. i LIKE Crowe's idea that Aeryn might be Crais' sister--very good call (with a bow to Revenge of the Jedi). Aeryn as a blood relation of Crais fits with the tone of their scene together. Crais seemed somewhat more tender towards her than on previous occasions. i thought this was sexual interest (that Talyn might want an Adam and Eve pairing on board), but it could be that Crais and Talyn want Aeryn on board because she is "family."

of course, a teaser like this suggests Aeryn will be back. the writers would neverkill her off for plot reasons. if she is gone, it has to be because Claudia Black quit the show. possible. Terry Farrell quit DS9. Claudia Christian quit Babylon 5. this is why you can never trust women where scifi is concerned :-)

john and scorpius: well, like i said, i am glad scorpius retrieved the chip. john's desire to find his way home is now directly linked to confronting scorpius. for me, this sort of strenthens the story arc. now the original storyline (getting home) and the secondary storyline (getting revenge) are the same storyline.

and, lastly, the effect: the chase scene on the ice world was darn good, up there with the dogfights on Hoth, the pursuit through the Endor forests, and the confrontations with Shadow vessels on B5.

iz

Posted By: Iznardi Jan 28, 2001 - 08:23 am

ooops, one more thing--

i wasn't bothered that much by the doctor's vulnerablilty to bacteria. presumably his species has to give birth in a hyper-clean environment. and it's true--we know from New World/Old World contact that people can be insulated from disease pathogens and then suffer horribly when contact with outsiders opens up a means for the pathogens to enter a previously unexposed population. the doctor's species must have an immune response to the pathogens indigenous to its native world, but can't deal with alien bacteria.

come to think of it, it's surprising this isn't a problem for most of the species on farscape.

Posted By: The Master Jan 28, 2001 - 12:59 pm

You know, I thought John sent a message to Scorpy and that's how they were found. Isn't that what the Scorped-out John was messing with on Moya when Jothee tried to tongue-zap him and D'Argo finished the job? This part didn't phase me I guess.

Crais Aeyrn's brother? Hmmm...I don't think that would make her the "happiest soul among us". I did read it as sexual attraction from Crais, which I don't think would be the case if he knew she was his sister (at least, I certainly hope not!). Have to wait and see where that goes...when they resurrect Aeryn as I insist they do!

On that, I've seen a couple of interviews with Claudia, and she has always been nothing but "love it" about doing the show. I can't imagine she would leave voluntarily.

Posted By: Crowe Jan 28, 2001 - 04:16 pm

Master, Your right, he was "calling" Scorpy. I'm glad his "phone home" chip is finally gone! Too bad for Scorpy!

Aeyrn and Crais brother and sister? I still think is possible. But I don't think that's the news he meant would make her happy. More times than once Crais has mentioned how PK's and especially himself and Aeyrn were brought up. My guess is that their parents, or maybe another sibling .. or some such thing were born free and not raised that way? His mention of parents and moral upbringing is what made me think of this in the first place. However, I think it's unlikely to be the cause. I'm sure it'll be important to her on that level though. I tend to agree with you that the feelings Crais had for her were def more than friends or family. And this would be a perfect plot device to strike up new animosity between John and Crais as well as give them ( John and Ayren ) something else to fight over, aside from the fact that John killed her.

I've decided to do a FarScape review, starting with the re-runs. I'll post my review here as well as on my home page. I've had a blast talking about it, just didn't know of a great place to do it, and this seems to be the perfect place for it!

----
Christopher Crowe

Posted By: ZimNova Jan 28, 2001 - 07:49 pm

DMD...more thoughts and some speculation.
Was Grunchlk a scumbag or what?
Thanks Crowe , "Baron (Harkonnen)-like" pimp, a reference to Dune, yes? The 1984 David Lynch version I'm sure.

I think Crichton is gonna be out of it for awhile and me thinks Crais will be the one to kill Scorpius for having caused the death(?) of Aeryn Sun through Scorpy-John for 2 reasons,

1) Crais is aware John was under Scorpy's control when he crashed the Farscape 1 onto Aeryn's prowler resulting in her current predicament.
He was hoping, by sharing some as of yet undisclosed information with her about Talyn, that she would join him & Talyn to go romping around the UT's as a team.
I'm not sure that he loves her, maybe more of a respect thing between two former PK troopers whom have both fled their duties to the PK and become free to follow other interests.
My thinking here is both of them were living in a vary tightly controled enviroment while part of the PK regiment's, where casual sex was encouraged (see *The Way We Weren't*, Aeryn & Velorek), but more meaningful relationships were not as Aeryn sold Velorek down the river for having cared!
Crais may have been looking for a *friend/lover/parner/any of the above* aboard Talyn as he as well as Aeryn must feel lonely having been removed from that former *close* relationship between PK combat troopers..

2) Crais will kill Scorpy because as a *purebreed* Sebacean he hates *halfbreeds*.
Remember, D'argo is on the run for this vary reason. He having killed the killer of his Sebacean wife!
Jothee was a slave because of this as well.
Scorpius is at *best* the worst offspring of a Sebacean/Scarran mating.
He an *abomination* is hated by everyone, except of course his self.
Stay Tuned!

Posted By: Azziz Jan 28, 2001 - 09:04 pm

What if Crichton had some of his memories of Aeryn removed, thinking he would be better off since she is dead?

It would certainly be twist on their relationship when she returns.

The good news Crais had might have been that their group was no longer being punished because of her?

Posted By: The Master Jan 29, 2001 - 05:36 pm

Yes, I can see Crais seeking revenge for Aeryn, but I really want it to be John who takes him out! Without the chip in his head to mess him up, I can see him being quite wicked about exacting his revenge. I would think Crais would take your typical PK efficiency route and just blast him with Tayln.

Where's the fun in that?

Posted By: Ian Viking Jan 30, 2001 - 03:13 am

First off, I have now idea when the BBC are gonna show the next season here in the UK, so I could well be behind you all by then.

As the doctor's weakness has been discussed, I'd like to add one thing about it that struck me at the time. His imp said that the green light protected the doctor, and that he'd be safe as long as it was on. But when Scorpy "infected" him - the light was still on! Maybe the lighting director missed that one eh? Or maybe Scorpy just has REALLY bad breath?

Also, am I the only one who thinks a trained prowler pilot should be able to out-fly a Scorpified Crichton? Oh well....
I did enjoy most of the episode, and the effects were certainly good.

Now, what can I watch while I'm waiting for the next episode???

Posted By: Iznardi Jan 30, 2001 - 06:04 am

hmmmmmmmm, and hmmmmmmm

azziz--yeah, the question of whether or not john had the doctor nix his memories of aeryn was deliberately left open to question. but, jeez, haven't they frelled with john enough? i really hope they don't go in for a plot spin that has him unable to remember who aeryn is.

master/crowe--lol; yeah, i guess finding out you're related to crais would not necessarily make you the "happiest soul" around. i admit, i have no idea or even the semblence of an idea about what is on the chip.

ian--well, supposedly aeryn never trained to fly in an atmosphere. i seem to remember this was an issue on Babylon 5, too; the star furies won't handle in Epsilon 3's atmosphere, and Sheridan uses Jupiter's atmosphere to outmanuever a Shadow vessel. what bugged me was, if you are pursuing someone and threatening to shoot them down, why the FRELL are you underneath them and slightly a head of them!

i still got the creeps from aeryn's plunge into the frozen lake. that was truly awful.

it would be kind of cool for crais to take out scorpius; i don't think it will go down that way, though. the real question is how crichton will take him out. it's going to have to be something excruciating appropriate to make up for how much everyone detests scorpy. making him a boy-toy for a division of scarran warriors would be good. a bit messy, but good. (i always thought the death of the emperor in Return of the Jedi was weak weak weak--after all that, he gets thrown off a balcony! for crying out loud!).

and by the way--how in the world can Voyager be in a TIE with Farscape as best scifi show on the air. Master, I think someone is fiddling with your voting system. --Katharine Harris, possibly.

Posted By: The Master Jan 30, 2001 - 04:29 pm

I think the light only covered the raised operating area, not the whole room. Note that the doc put the mask on to step down to the door area and talk to Scorpy.

Iz- yeah, the polls been interesting this time around. Voyager started off low, but has surged. Stargate was doing very well, but has fallen of late. X-Files has bounced around some, but is holding its own. I would guess that Voyager gets the die hard Trek vote, and it has the benefit of much longer on the air and being on a broadcast network. If anything, I've been pleased as punch that FS started strong and continues to be at the top! A sure sign that FS is quickly developing a strong fan base. We now return you to our regular FS discussion...

Posted By: Crowe Jan 30, 2001 - 05:53 pm

Aeyrn was behind John at first. She was going to shoot him, but lost him in that tunnel when visibility went low. As pointed out, John as a pilot trained in atmosphere. He got above here when she was distracted..

The alien's green light was on, but Scorpy pulled him out of it before he breathed his deadly space onion breath on him.

---
Crowe

Posted By: Iznardi Feb 05, 2001 - 04:19 am

Hey there--

Have I mentioned how disgusted I am that Voyager is leading Farscape in our local poll?

If not, let me just say--

I am disgusted that Voyager is leading Farscape in our local poll.

As far as I can tell, there isn't a single message board about Voyager at this site, and if there is, it isn't very active. So if all these people think the show is so great, how come they can't be bothered to post a discussion?

I have totally lost my faith in the electoral system. Where's the nearest monarchy?

iz

Posted By: The Master Feb 07, 2001 - 01:26 pm

Just thought I'd mention that FS is again leading the poll Iz (I know that will make you happy!).

Actually, it is possible to vote multiple times. Blocking is done by IP addy (if your IP shows up in the voted log, you get the results and not the voting form). For most people, this means if you log off your ISP and log back on, chances are you will end up with a new (dynamic) IP address so the voting form will show up again.

Basically, this keeps people from sitting there and stuffing the box again and again. If someone wants to go to all the trouble of logging on and off just to vote in my little poll, then I figure they've got way too much time on their hands! Seems like a lot of weird effort to me, but to each his own I suppose

Posted By: Ian Viking Feb 08, 2001 - 12:45 am

Hmmmm, sitting in a university with 300 PCs to choose from - I guess I could manage a little creative vote counting....

Posted By: Iznardi Feb 08, 2001 - 06:46 am

ian--

been there, done that. that's why farscape is leading.

:-)

iz

Posted By: MerleZ Feb 08, 2001 - 10:11 am

Ian, you didn't happen to be visiting Florida on, say, November 7?

Posted By: Ian Viking Feb 12, 2001 - 01:09 am

No Merle, I used postal votes though :-)