We have moved to new forum software and posting here is closed!

PLEASE BOOKMARK THE NEW FORUMS

	Subtopic	Started By	Posts
	Archive through Apr 13, 2001 Last Post: Apr 13, 2001, 08:36 am	ZimNova	10

Posted By: The Master Apr 13, 2001 - 09:50 pm

I didn't see it the first time around, so I wanted to get a few eps under my belt before I commented.

At the risk of incurring the neverending rath of my faithful visitors, I don't like it very much (*ducks to avoid the many projectiles*).

Truthfully, the only character I'm interested in is Galen. Gary Cole has as much personality as a warmed over bowl of oatmeal. A more dynamic lead would have been helpful, but I'd just as soon have a series about Galen and the Technomages.

I've been watching the B5 reruns, which I didn't watch religiously in first run (*ducks again*) so I can't help but compare the two. Where are the rich characters? Where's the political intrique? Where's the freakin' aliens for cryin' out loud? Yeah, I know its not the same show, but it IS set in the same universe and general timeframe. It simply pales by comparison.

No, I really don't "hate" it, its just not nearly as good as I thought it would be. I really don't know if having this ep order would have made a difference in its original survival. Sure, its always preferable to show eps in the order intended, but TV shows have their eps moved around all the time and still do fine. As I recall, TNT had it on the chopping block before it even aired, and its ratings didn't do anything to change their mind. If a brand new show with this kind of pedigree can't get good enough ratings to stay on a cable channel, would the order of the episodes have made all that much of a difference?

---

Quote:

how is it that some of the stuff the refrenenced in this ep hasen't even happened yet

---

Posted By: Bmat Apr 14, 2001 - 08:11 am

LOL@the Master!

No flaming from here anyway. Crusade isn't as good as B5. I keep having to struggle to stay awake when I watch it, even though I want to see it. The captain could be a better character. The actor didn't seem to give the role much energy. I assume the director determined the low key presentation.

Posted By: ZimNova Apr 14, 2001 - 08:43 am

Hello Gail & Nomad, good to see ya here.
Master, no big deal. We are here to share opinions about the shows yes? Not flame each other like at less civilized sites.

The thing about JMS's writing is he takes time to develop his characters and storylines and like Babylon, Crusade was to have had a 5 year story arc so all we were ever shown was the basic groundwork of say Galen or Max or Dureena.
Remember how we met *Lise Hampton*, Garibaldi's ex (and biggest mistake for the time being), during a season 1 ep. on Mars? Her character as *Lise Edgars* shows up 4 years later (in real time) during S-5 and plays a major role in the arc that nobody except JMS knew about and had us all surfing over to the *Lurkers Guide* to try to remember where we had seen her before! (well me at least)

I like Gary Cole as Capt. Gideon. More like a real military commander than Sinclair, whom was a political appointee insisted upon by the Minbari, (of course we now know why as we saw in War Without End pt. 1&2), or Sheridan whom grew to be a larger than life character before the story played out to it's end.
Gideon strikes me as more of a *nuts & bolts, get the job done* type of leader who only holds the rank of Captain in the EA.
He also has a vary dark secret which has only been hinted at but will be explained more fully soon.
That's one of the mysteries that we'll never know the complete outcome of btw, pissed off at TNT (spit) yet again!

Posted By: Crowe Apr 14, 2001 - 11:13 am

I agree with "The Master" on this one. I don't think the order meant squat. Galen was the strongest character on the show. Mysterious, intelligent, witty, and had real screen presence.

Gary Cole will forever be Lumberg in my mind. To me, he just was lax doing this role. Just seem there and not into it. Maybe it's the sci-fi he can't get behind. Dunno what it was but he was very flat. He didn't have the voice or commanding presence that sincliar or sheridan had. Not even close.

The rest of the cast were misfits as well. The theif, doctor and max were all very very two dimensional. Card board cut outs. Yeah, I know jms developes them slowly and I love the way he unfolds a story. I'm talking about how they were played by the actors. It looked like no one got enough caffine to wake up, save for galen.

The show was doomed from day one.

I'm all for a show staring the Techmages, speaking of which, when I go out later, I'll grab that book.

*In the mean time, I'm hiding under the table with The Master!*

-------------------------------------
Christopher Crowe (crowe@lit.org)
Editor - Lit.Org (http://www.lit.org)
-------------------------------------

Posted By: Bmat Apr 14, 2001 - 01:45 pm

Well said, Crowe. Two-dimensional is right on!

I can't see the show ever being as good as B5. By the time the last episode of Crusade had been shown I didn't care if I ever saw any more- (although I would have watched it if it had- always hopeful!) By the 5th episode of Babylon 5 I was firmly hooked. Actually by the first episode of Babylon 5 I knew there was something worth watching.

Posted By: The Master Apr 14, 2001 - 09:58 pm

Ahhh...you guys are too good to me

I really don't think the old 5 year arc thing would work with Crusade. Sure, you have overlying "find the cure" story arc, but by its nature (a ship travelling from place to place), storylines would need to be more episodically focused. Still, doesn't make any difference to how interesting Gary Cole is..."flat" is a good word for it Crowe.

Posted By: The Master Apr 17, 2001 - 02:43 pm

OK...what was the deal with the X-Files episode? Does JMS have an admiration for the show and do it as a tribute, or was it a parody?

Posted By: Sindatur Apr 17, 2001 - 07:15 pm

I originally saw this episode as a parody personally. But, this time around, we were taken into the series down a different road, with the intended order. I've only seen most of the episodes once (Missed the one that will be on next Monday Path of sorrows) even though I have all of them taped (except the one I missed). I personally am enjoying the episodes this time around and for me, even the ones that I thought were just plain stupid the first run through, work much better for me.

Tonights episode: "Mr. Jones" is played by the guy who was programmed by Bureau 13, in Spider in the Web. I didn't recognize him before, but read it today and now I can totally see it

Posted By: Sindatur Apr 17, 2001 - 07:25 pm

Reply to The Master's opening post in this topic.

Believe it or not, the show was meant to really heat up and begin to change or defray direction with the 14th and 15th episodes (The scripts JMS had in the Can in case the show survived it's first 13 episode run. Those scripts were posted on Bookface (I think?) and I didn't get to read them, but the folks who did read them were quite impressed and thought they were the best of the lot. JMS seemed very proud of them, and when JMS is really jazzed about something, it usually means something really cool for us viewers

Posted By: Sindatur Apr 17, 2001 - 08:24 pm

One more Post, since I saw tonight's episode and enjoyed it immensely.

I really, really enjoyed tonight's episode after having read the 1st Technomage book. And the answers to everyone's questions were great. What are Gideon and Matheson's questions, and their answers? And will we see them find them? What was Galen's question and answer, and will we see him find it? Does it have something to do with the spell?
Minor spoiler for first time Crusade Viewers and those who haven't read the First Technomage novel.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
It's incredible how much he loved Isabelle so much in such a short period of time. Really gives you a glimpse into the strength of Galen's Passion. Technomage's seem to have a similar extremely strong connection as Teeps have when they become "One with each other"

It never made sense to me when/how Galen worked his way back into good graces with Gideon. I am looking forward to seeing that played out properly. Is he in tomorrow's episode? (The one that was originally aired last with the Drahk return?) I am also looking forward to "The Path of Sorrows" on Monday which is the one episode I missed the first run through which I believe is also a Galen episode.

What was the Part of Isabelle that Galen released at the Well? Was it the knowledge he inherited from her or did he somehow reclaim the article that Her mother/teacher (Burell?) made to serve as her "familiar"? (an amulet?)

Do I need to re-read the Technomage opening book again to get an answer to this question? I've only had the opportunity to read it the one time.

Posted By: Sindatur Apr 19, 2001 - 06:42 am

Last night's episode Each NIght I Dream of Home with the Drahk (originally shown as the final episode) presented us with another of JMS's classic moral dilemmas.
As the plumber (sorry can't remember his name) I can understand him doing it. If my soulmate was on Earth with the plague and I wasn't, I would easily make the choice he did. Better to live 5 years with your other half, than to live those years without your love and watch them die. Also, knowing that your sacrifice, could, possibly aid in finding the cure for the Human race.

On the other hand, Dr. Franklin's dilemma would be a tough one. A doctor's first priority is to cause no harm or to not make a patient worse. But he did have a volunteer, that probably would've continued trying to find a way to get back to Earth and if Dr. Franklin and the Government didn't help him, then they wouldn't have been able to gain the information of a newly infected person, thereby giving them another tool to try and win against the Virus.