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Posted By: Iznardi Jul 01, 2001 - 11:48 am

For discussion of the latest episode

Posted By: Iznardi Jul 01, 2001 - 11:54 am

Well, true to the episode, I have "no time" to post, but I'll make some brief comments.

Maybe the best joining and an "A" and "B" story we have seen so far. The stuff with Scorpius is amazing. Apparently he doesn't yet have the ability to create a wormhole (they found the one they were using) but he can stabilize one. And it looks like either Crichton or the original wormhole aliens have cheated him of his prize! As to why Sebaceans turn to mush inside wormholes--did Scorpius only get misinformation, or did his probe pick up some type of "beserker" file in Crichton's head, designed to lead people down the wrong track. Certainly gonna make it tough for Crichton to take Aeryn back to Urp through a wormhole!

And then the major revelation--I can almost sympathize with Scorpius' desperation to perfect his wormhole weapon. Sounds like the Scarrans have the Peacekeepers badly out-classed.

I also like this business of splitting the episodes between Moya and Talyn. I hope they keep this up for a while. It really allows a lot more scope to the story arc.

As for Chiana's new talent--well, we haven't encountered the Nebari for awhile. Guess she will have a little surprise for them the next time they meet up.

iz

Posted By: Crowe Jul 01, 2001 - 02:42 pm

Looks like John on Moya is the clone. I've had a feeling the clone would break down after a while and I think this EP was the first hints that it's happening.

As for the wormhole bit. I think the memories Scorpy stold still have elements of John's personality and whatever protection the Aliens implanted in John. I think it's fighting Scorpy. The same way Scorpy's leftover self image is still messing with John a bit.

All in all a good EP and I love Chi's new gift.

--Crowe

Posted By: The Master Jul 01, 2001 - 03:26 pm

Come on...the real new is: Jool changed clothes! Does the girl have some abs on her or what?

FS is the only show brave enough to have not just two, but THREE stories going on at once. The Talyn/Moya split is working out nicely, and now they throw in Scorpy's side arc. This is not TV for idiots! What's truly amazing is that they are pulling this off so well considering that the core group isn't very big (of course, two John's helps!).

So, Scorpy has a "noble" reason for looking for wormholes. Hmmmm...I don't trust him. There may be truth to what he says, but I don't believe this is his real motivation. In the end, he will corrupt it to his own selfish ends. Nevertheless, there appears to be the promise of a major PK/Scarran clash to come. That should be good. Cool to see that Scorpy is haunted by John...even more so than John is haunted by Scorpy these days. Me thinks the ol' half-breed is losing it.

The "John bleeds, the other's don't" thing is an interesting way of raising the question of Moya John being the clone. But, like Jool said, it could have been because John's a "weak and inferior human" and have nothing to do with the clone thing. Good one for the watch list.

Chi's got psy power! Ooooo that's a fun twist. How she will deal with it should be interesting. Can she handle it?

Next week we go back to Talyn, and Aeryn's meeting up with Mom. Wow...that didn't take long! Looks to be extra action packed too.

Posted By: ZimNova Jul 01, 2001 - 03:34 pm

Losing Time or *A Bugs Life, Pt. 2*
Well I'm gonna say it. The "A" story started out like a good mystery but soon went downhill and fast.
Like the bleeding... what was the point with that?
This was the third time the crew has been possessed by some form of alien being. The first was in *Out of Their Minds* but the closer to *LT* was during *ABL*.
This one was way to *Trek* IMHO and I found it ironic that John mentioned that show in one of his jokes.
The 'mistake' in the camera angle from the DRD. First showing us the playback from it's POV perched on a point above and behind the table but then showing the playback of the Chiana part of that scene and using the 'original POV' shot of her through a filter to simulate a view on the clamshell screen. Bad direction that.
The dialogue was poor.
After the creature tells them there's an 'enegry rider' in one of them, Jool asks," Are you saying there's a diseased alien in one of us?" or Ka D'argo with the rifle down the throat comment and John replys with, "And what are you going to do if it says no?", Duh and duh.
Oh, the F/X of the 'possessed' Pilot. Voice dub and different lighting?, whoa! Where do they find the budget for such realistic effects?
Sorry gang but it's the 'little' things that add or distract from the quality of the production for me.
OK, they get stuck with some kind of 'time displacement'? If anyone could explain that part to me, please do, for after 2 viewings I still can not see the reason for that as a part of the plot.

Plus'es I thought were Jool's new costume as well as her being more a part of the crew. Like they seem to care about her welfare more, especially Ka D'argo. Jool also was for once thinking of someone besides herself when helping Chi after the creature was forced out. There may yet be hope for her character as the replacement for Zhann.
They tried to trick us at one point with how Chi would answer as to who killed Salis (*Durka Returns*) but we still don't know if it was Durka or her? Still a big mystery as to her pre-Moya past.
I also thought the scene's in the Star Burst chamber were cool with the lasers. Gigi did a fine job at playing the 'possessed' one.
Crichton seemed to like it there with Chiana too.
The SOD(tm) continues as both energy beings were killed.
Well next week we get the entire crew back together again, thank the Great Maker.

The "B" story on the other hand was pretty frelling well done as we were given a hugh amount of information to do with the *Arc*.
Scorpius is using the chip he took from Crichton's brain to 'dream' about wormhole tech. Thing is, it can be a nightmare too.
Either the beings who gave Crichton the sub-conscious wormhole knowledge in *A Human Reaction* left something out (minor problem) or Sebaceans cannot travel through the wormholes they stumble across (major problem).
The PK are soon to have major problems of their own with the Scarrans and have only held off attack by lying about already having a wormhole weapon.
I kind of got the impression that the PK and Scarrans were working together as we saw on the Royal Planet but maybe Cargn was a mercenary and thus not part of the regular Scarran forces.
Ole Scorpy is a 'shooter'. Of what I wonder?
Did you catch how fast and how scared Turac(sp) got when Scorpius asked, "Do you know why you are my second in command", Scorpy can still strike fear with a mire question.
btw, what happened to the second prowler test pilot, the former project manager? has he gone through yet?
Stay Tuned.

Posted By: The Master Jul 01, 2001 - 03:59 pm

I'm not sure (re: the second pilot) if we are supposed to assume he went and was turned to jelly, or if the show ended before he went. I'm guessing the first, and if he never appears again that's probably what happened.

I like the Star Wars/Star Trek thing! It was a fun reference. I guess the DRD got blasted in the starburst blast, which was kinda sad.

I forgot...Jool's revelation about what she was really doing when she got frozen was interesting. So she's not so innocent after all. Plus, it clarifies that she didn't get whatever killed her brother because she wasn't there, which is why she didn't die after being revived.

And yes, inside the chamber was good, but the laser light in the hallway was tacky. I also agree about the Pilot lighting, but the voice was consistent (Chi's voice changed too).

I didn't notice the camera angle mistake...good catch.

The lost time was simply a matter of them being knocked out without knowing it. It wasn't really a time shift. John's bleeding clued him that something else was going on, so he comes up with the DRD video idea. The bleeding also raises the question of "why would he bleed when the others don't?", and the "maybe its because he's not the original John?" question.

Thinking about that a little more...it may work out better if Talyn John is the real one because of the open romance with Aeryn. Thoughts?

Posted By: ZimNova Jul 02, 2001 - 12:37 am

Master, thing is I have tried to reason this out and still don't see the purpose of their *Losing Time* as the ep. title suggests if that was only a plot device to set up the scene where the DRD makes the recording backed up by Jool's hot/cold water statement. Both Chi & Ka D'argo report not having lost any time prior to their group experience but that scene was after however long it took for John to lose all that blood.
It just don't add up because:
1) where was everyone else while John was laying there losing time and bleeding and,
2) after John wakes up, runs to find Chiana and returns to the chamber in 90 seconds of screen time what happened to all that blood?
We saw them all doing the hebie-gebie mosh pit shakin' thing during their missing 1/2 arn, all of them at the same time, so was it because the first *energy rider* was *tasting* them all before choosing Chiana?
If that's the case why didn't the one in Pilot just knock them all out for as long as it took to find the ER?
Now mind you it did cause Pilot to lose consciousness in order to communicate with the crew but did he lose any time while possessed?
The only other reason I can think up for the title refers to Moya/John's *running out of time* like one of the replicants from *Blade Runner*

As to John's bleeding.
1) Losing that much blood he should have been weak as a kitten. (ever give blood? the loss of but one pint leaves one a little woozy)
2) Chiana finds no wound.
3) Unless he's *St. John of the uncharted territories* that entire part of the story is still a mystery...unless as others have brought up including Pilot, our John on Moya keeps bleeding next week 'cause he's the clone and will just kind of keep fading away or here's a thought, they sacrifice the clone John to Scorpius so he thinks Crichton is dead once and for all.
I guess the more I read here and then think about the "A" story in this ep. there's more to it that at first glance.
Like you said, "thinking persons TV".

Posted By: Crowe Jul 02, 2001 - 05:41 am

Cheesy effects. I was glad to see em. Why? This was a "filler" EP. Minor threads to the mythology story line but essentially pie filling. I'd much rather them save their increased budget for more important episodes.

However the money the spent on the Star Burst chamber (excluding the cheesy green laster) were excellent. I loved how the star burst engery looked.

Jool is growing on me as is Stark. Ugh! I think the running out of time does indeed refer to John being a clone AND to the fact that if the riders stayed, they would cause permanant damage. I don't think the loosing time had anything to do with the title.

As for loosing time, have you seen anyone wearing a time keeping device or a clock on moya? There are also not in a particular place long enough to get a full sun rotation thing going so they won't visually know how much time has passed. They can check the computer.. but most of them probably are only concerned with the passing of hours and days. I'd say chi and D'Argo weren't doing anyting that was time sensative so they didn't notice the time loss. John and Jool did because of the sudden "blood" and water turning cold instantly.

As for the blood - No wound is odd. But I'm ignoring the lack of a wound because I think that's what they want me to do. I'm thinking his poors bled or something..heh. As for that much blood loss, yeah he should be woozy to say the least. But more than that I do believe this is a huge hint that this little John is going to buy the farm soon. He looked like hell in certain scenes - which I think was the point.

I really liked the Star Trek in jokes. Especially the "DRD Pike" thing. I know most of you are Trek fans, but for those who aren't or don't remember, Captain Christopher Pike was the first captain of the Enterprise before Kirk. Pike was wounded and later met up with Kirk and crew when Spok disobeyed direct orders and helped return Pike to a planet he'd been to. Pike was in a little box that on the front had a light. Pike could not speak so he blinked once for yes, and twice for no

--Crowe

Posted By: Iznardi Jul 02, 2001 - 09:17 am

Well, on the bleeding, either it was an unnecessary plot twist, or it was dropped in to provide the first evidence that at least one of the Crichtons is breaking down. I'm guessing this was deliberate, and was thrown in with all the other confusion so that viewers wouldn't pick up on it immediately. And it does kind of make sense the the "real" John would jump ship to go with Aeryn--I mean, it's likely he would be one step ahead of his clone when it came to making sure which of them stuck close to the babe.

I was so impressed with the Scoripus arc I didn't really mind anything about the alien-possession story. In some ways, I regarded that as the window dressing, and the wormhole business as the serious story.

I also think Scorpius is being absolutely honest about his motives. I think his primary motivational force is a desire to destroy the Scarrans. He may be a half breed but he is definitely a PK half-breed.

Posted By: Crowe Jul 02, 2001 - 09:25 am

I think Scorpy is ambitous to say the least. He always has a double motive. Yes the Scarans are going to come kick their arses. Yes, he's a half breed which the Scarans want to kill and the PK's keep him around because of his brain I think.

But, I think Scorpy has other plans. Not contrary to what he's said so far, but in addition. I think he wants to lead. He thursts for power.

Still, I'm enjoying how tormented the old crusty freak has been. Let's not forget just how vile and evil Scorpy was to John and the gang! I'm still hoping he gets what he deserves! And that's a blast from Wynona in the tail pipe!

--Crowe

Posted By: The Master Jul 02, 2001 - 05:22 pm

Gee...I wish I had watched the later repeat now so I had two shots at catching everything!

I agree that the main story was mostly filler...except for the advancement (i.e. improvement) of Jool's character and the probable setup of Moya John as the clone. Kind of like an X-File's monster ep...usually good, but doesn't have anything to do with the main arc. The Scorpy sideline was definitely the key portion of the show.

Blood loss can be deceiving. I don't think he really lost all that much, it just looks like a lot when its all spread out. As for where it went, I assumed the DRD cleaned it up, and that John couldn't find any remnants because he had been passed out again and didn't know it.

Something I noticed...the second time he bled, it had a definite stigmata look.

I didn't find the others not noticing John lying there bleeding odd at all. They made a big point of storming off being fed up with John's hunt for a wormhole, and were off doing their own thing. Its an odd group...they do care about each other, but are only together out of necessity, not choice. If they had their way, every one of them would be somewhere else.

I agree that D'Argo and Chi didn't notice the time loss because they weren't doing anything that would make them notice. Without some external clue, none of them had any idea they were even out. The whole group was probably knocked out every instance, only Jool and John had a reason to notice (and Jool found a way to rationalize it and brush it off). The Pilot alien could reach out from afar, so I assume the other alien could too. If he knocked them all out, he could taste them discretely--remember, he was trying to slip by unnoticed so they would take him away with them. At least some of the mass blackouts were probably the Pilot alien trying to find a suitable host, and maybe even looking for the other alien. We can't be sure how long the small alien was in Pip, and maybe he couldn't find it easily tasting all of them at once (spreading the effort too thin).

Posted By: Iznardi Jul 03, 2001 - 08:28 am

Well, all my questions have to do with Scorpius and the wormhole tech. I wish I had watched the repeat:

(1) I thought the whole value of Crichton's knowledge was that it contained information on how to create a worhmhole at will. So why did Scorpius have to find a wormhole to conduct tests?

(2) If he's working on a weapon to send through the wormhole, why does it have to be manned. An arsenal of missles, launched by surprise in enemy space, would be just as effective.

(3) In the last dream, Crichton tells him, "Game Over. You missed everything." So does this mean the chip is worthless? Or that Scorpius just hasn't delved deeply enough into its data?


iz

Posted By: Crowe Jul 03, 2001 - 08:51 am

Iz:

1. I think that Scorpy just hasn't gotten to all the info in John's memory yet so he can't create one.

2. The advantage in a worm whole is that the wormhole is the weapon. Right now you can Star Bust and I get the idea that you can only go so far with star burst. Imagine being able to jump anywhere in the Galaxy at any time. You could ambush your enemies while they were still gathering their ships and resources. Say they move a huge part of their armada to attack PK home world? Well with the Wormhole the PK's could leap to the Scaran home wolrd, destroy it and be back in time to defend the attack. Scary

3. I think this means two things. John's memory is proving stronger than Scorpy anticipated and the aliens put in safe guards against just such an event. We'll have to wait and see though. Only a few more days till the next ep

They have to prolong worlholes a little longer though, because once any of them can do it, it's just a matter of time before John can go home OR worse, PK's can take earth in retaliation for John's actions!

--Crowe

Posted By: ZimNova Jul 03, 2001 - 08:48 pm

What do we know about Wormholes?

Iznardi & Crowe, you guys got me thinking about this whole issue ala FarScape.

1)Wormholes exist.
2)They exist as a *natural* phemonenon.
3)Crichton got shot through one because of an experiment in *Hyper-Acceleration* thus landing him in the world of FarScape. This was a total accident, the wormhole was already there.
4)There's a wormhole somewhere near Earth.
5)Scorpius is interested in Crichton because he came through one.
6)The PK have been trying to figure out a way to use this tech. as a weapon ever since they stumbled across one.
7)Crichton was found out by Scorpius because:
A)He's not Sebacean
B)His mind holds some kind of wormhole tech.
8)We have the shows *Nerve* and after ep.'s to show the effort Scorpius will go to to discover the key to this tech. inluding the *Scorpy* chip.
9)The *Scorpy* chip fails to deliver.
10)John is *free* of the Scorpy chip but has some Scorpy left in him.
11)Scorpius is *free* of John but not quite.
12)Bottom line is the wormhole tech. is completely random.
13)I play back the last scene from the S-1 ep. *A Human Reaction*, from John's *father*,
"Why not just make a wormhole to take you to Earth?".
"That would use all of our remaining power, we only have enought to transport our race one last time. We had to be certin how we would be received".
"Many of us hope that Earth may be our welcoming place, if all people were like you, maybe it could be.
There not.
It also led us to a familiar conclusion".
"which one?"
"That the highest life form on the planet is also the most destructive, your Humans would kill us".
"So what will you do now?".
"What was done before I was hatched, we continue searching for a home".
"So will I".
"here"
"thanks".
As Crichton opens a door showing a wormhole the alien says: "Maybe we'll meet again one day John"
"Maybe".
Bottom line is we still know little about wormholes, not only us but Moya's crew and Scorpius too!