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	Archive through Jul 28, 2001 Last Post: Jul 28, 2001, 03:23 pm	ZimNova	10

Posted By: Bmat Jul 28, 2001 - 04:44 pm

LOL, Crowe!!! I missed that one- thanks for pointing it out!

Today's military weapons don't require a direct hit, so that part didn't bother me. I couldn't, however, believe that the enemy was that naive to keep charging.

Posted By: ZimNova Jul 28, 2001 - 08:24 pm

To my own defense...we know next to nothing about these *Ancients* so maybe other races like Furlow's, (sorry i was wrong as i posted Aeryn) see them in different forms (like the Vorlon during Babylon), ok, I can live with that, but still, why the different appearence?
Upon further reflection, the most likely probability is setting up something for the future as the makers don't do stuff like that for no reason, nor spend precious currency making mistakes.
Duh Zim.

The idea of the Scorpius clone in control of T-John is scarey, (thanks Crowe) and Areyn will kill that *thing* in a microt.
Thing is though, they are facing a way bigger threat with the Scarran-Charrid alliance.
These Charrid's are lousy fighters but there seems to be lots of *cannon fodder* in their ranks.
Numbers in battle can equal wins even against a superior force.
Sun Tzu wrote, "It takes a 9:1 advantage to overcome a well defended position", (that's in 441 BC Earth Standard Time), this still holds true today in current US military doctrine (C.2001).

We'll have to wait and see what the writers pose in next's weeks ep., *Icarus Abides*.
Will *wormhole tech.*, play a part?
Will T-John survive?
Stay tuned.

Posted By: The Master Jul 28, 2001 - 11:28 pm

What we saw of them doesn't make them seem like good fighters, but Rigel's story of his people's war with them ("millions upon millions" dead) makes it sound like they are a relentless and ruthless adversary who is not to be taken lightly.

I do find it a little odd the Scarrans would partner with them though. The Scarrans are xenophones that despise all races but their own. Besides wanting the wormhole tech the Charrids stumbled on, why would the Scarrans want them around?

Posted By: Crowe Jul 29, 2001 - 06:35 am

Master, my take on that is that the Scarrans are hell bent on universe domination. The Charrids have great numbers. The Scarrans already outnumber the PK, but if other races join in the war - who knows.

The Scarrans have are strong and tougher than most races and have a keen intelligence. The Charrids seem fairly smart (they do have space and weapon technology) but also have great numbers. More than that, they have several times the pain threshold as other races as the scene whith Rigel and the Charrid pointed out. This I think would garner at least some level of respect from the Scarrans.

I think these are worthy of the Scarrans in the capacity of front line cannon fodder. Guarding Scarrans, Outposts, convoys and the first line of attack.

--Crowe

Posted By: Iznardi Jul 29, 2001 - 07:11 am

Well, I think Furlough might be my new favorite character. I loved her in the first episode, but never expected them to bring her back. The fact that she, out of everyone, managed to create a vehicle that can stablizie wormholes--and without the help of the formulas the Ancients gave Crichton--is just way cool. Great irony! The formulas, the chip, the mental clones--no one needed any of it. They just needed Furlough.

She also had some of the best lines, including the one were she throws a grenade at some attacking aliens and says, "We're closed, ya daedons!"

However, the way I see things going now is: "Jack" is going to have to develop his weapon in full view of Scorpius/Crichton. That means he can't let Scorpius/Crichton live. So I guess Talyn Crichton will be history in Part Two. I have a feeling Jack will kill him, not Aeryn.

In addition, the Ancients have to eliminate Furlough, since she can obviously duplicate her experiment all over again. I hope she escapes, but I'm sure Jack will have a go at her.

Remember, too, that the Scorpius clone told Crichton that Jack was misleading him, that he would try to take them all out. Now, that could have just been misinformation, of the clone may be telling the truth--he's pretty sharp.

I also think this episode was another great reminder not to underestimate a hynerian dominar. Rygel, when he's ruthless in the right cause, is almost heroic.

So anyway, my guess would be, Talyn Crichton bites it, Moya Crichton has to keep Harvey because its just been demonstrated that trying to get rid of him will be fatal, Aeryn now has to readjust to life with Crichton II (who she has never had sex with), Jack, I think, will turn out to be another adversary, and Furlough--I hope, I hope--will survive, maybe join the crew, or maybe head off on her own--in which case I bet she turns up with Scorpius sooner or later. Maybe the Scorpius clone will even point her in that direction in the next episode.

iz

Posted By: Iznardi Jul 29, 2001 - 07:14 am

P.S., regarding Icarus Abides:

abide means to remain, to continue, or to put up with or tolerate. it can also mean to stand fast "I will abide by the agreeement."

Posted By: Bmat Jul 29, 2001 - 10:55 am

I hadn't considered the angle that Jack might actually be scamming them. Perhaps it's not even the "real" Jack, which would explain the difference in appearance, although you'd think a shape shifter could have made the orginal appearance if it wanted to. I tend to agree that the changed appearance was simply something for which Furlough would be impressed.

She is a delightful character. I'd like to see her more often, also. I'm not sure though but that she might steal all the scenes if she were part of the regular crew.

I've been assuming that Talyn John is gone. Scorpy/Talyn John is now in charge. It's an interesting speculation.

Posted By: Sindatur Jul 29, 2001 - 04:17 pm

Reading the posts, I was actually surprised it took so many before somebody hit on Jack possibly scamming them. That was actually the biggest thing I took away from the episode. Harvey, while annoying, has always been there for John. He's pulled his fat outta the fire more than once. If Harvey says that John was being used by Jack, I think, something is definitely up. Jack's not the real Jack, or the ancients aren't exactly what Jack has been portraying them as.

Furlough was great. She did it all by herself when John, scorpy, and the other race that traveled through the wormholes couldn't do it. She is definitely someone to be feared or allied with when you think about the awesome potential of the wormholes.

What exactly did Jack mean about wormholes, being such a possibly destructive force. Is it just the pop in at a moments notice, or can wormholes be used to destroy things (IE: open up one in the middle of a planet and it destabilizes or mess up a moon's orbit or something to that degree.

Looking forward to the next episode, hopefully I'll get to see it outta more than just one eye aas I have the last two episodes.

Posted By: Sindatur Jul 29, 2001 - 04:23 pm

Oh, yea. I too, thought about Talyn John's Harvey becoming the dominant personality and that killing him is the final way out of the two Johns syndrome. I haven't made my mind up though, wether Jack or Aeryn, or possibly even Crais or someone else may do it. This does definitely fall into the sequence of events that keep John and Aeryn from living happily ever after together.

Posted By: Crowe Jul 29, 2001 - 04:55 pm

Sin - I didn't mention the Jack using them because I don't think he is. Not in an evil way anyway.

First off, why would he give john a push in the right direction just to show up later to take it away? He probably wouldn't. It's not likely he's wanting their help to defeat an enemy, what would one battle solve?

No, I think he's there to make sure wormwhole tech is safe. I think the trusts and likes John and would do anything to help him. But not at the cost of his own people.

Icarus Abides however may mean, as Iz implied, that Jack will stick to the rules at kill whoever is a threat. Furlough is dead meat I think next ep. We need fodder to prove the situation is grimm. I think John will either become controlled by the Scorpy clone or die.

Consider this. If all Jack was concerned with was Wormwhole tech, all he had to do was Kill John, Furlough, and destroy the data as soon as he arrived. He didn't do that. Yes, he's trying to figure out who all knows but still.

As for the weapon, obviously he's going to use the equations in john's head to create a weapon to destroy the Scarran Dreadnaught. Can you imagine what kind of weapon that would be? Able to blast a ship that size in orbit from planet side? If he does that though, he'll have to kill everyone who knows how to do that or make them forget. In the case John is in control, he'll make him forget how to build the weapon but I'm afraid Furlough is too mercenary to survive. She's toast.

Here is my prediction. Based on the fact that the writers always , and I mean always throw us a curve ball and seeing the chat last thursday, I'm going to predict that John grabs scorpy and pulls him back down and ends him. This John will live and be John. All the evidence points to the contrary so it won't happen. (Could be that they know we know and will hence go the other way, but I know that they know that we know so back to my original guess .. heh).

I also don't think Jack will kill Furlough, I think she'll either be killed trying to escape, or actually escape and Jack will charge John with safe guarding wormwhole tech. This could lead to so much My mind is racing.

Here is what I think will really happen. Nothing we expected. That's as good a guess as I'm able to make these days with Farscape. Frell the writers! (No, We love the writers, but frell them anway! hahah)

--Crowe

Posted By: Bmat Jul 29, 2001 - 05:23 pm

But what if it isn't really Jack? If it is another alien who is trying to get the knowledge. That is another explanation for his not killing off and destroying all artifacts and people with the information.