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Posted By: Jude Feb 07, 2005 - 02:05 am

Below is an extract of part of my novel (Chapter plans done to 70,000 words and manuscript completed to 13,000 words) I don't know how to write scientific detail properly nor how to balance it with plot movement and charactor interaction. I feel that too scant an amount of information makes the imagary obscure and yet I feel I have too much here and it puts a weight on the story and slows it down. How do I fix it? And break the habit of repeating it? Help!!!


‘Permission to speak, sir,’ said Parla as he manoeuvred closer to Cruser and pointed into the distance. The light strip of the next Triscan day was breaking through the first of the shafts.
‘Speak,’ said Doomfell.
‘We have one hour before light band dawn. We will be burnt if we don’t move out soon,’ said Parla.
‘Sir,’ said Cruser, ‘We are also in the vicinity of Triscan space patrols and have broken the conditions of the Alliance.’
The light strip broadened as shaft after shaft filled.
Far below was the planet Trisc. Its dense cloud cover gave way under the power of the heat ball moving through the corridor above. The forests in the depth of the mountains of the planet began to radiate the heat to the rich soil. On Mount Rafteli, where the heavily wooded slopes dropped off into the sea, there was an area called ‘The Electrical Mile’ in scientific circles. This was because of the prevalent lightning bolts and spiral storms.
In a cleared area on one of the wooded slopes there sat a man before an unusual instrument. It stood about ten feet tall. The main framework consisted of three rectangular poles joined together at the top, and upon which a dish was balanced. The dish emitted invisible rays vertically. The rays travelled in a straight line until reaching the first moon of the planet. They were then spread on the surface of the moon and the particles within the immediate vicinity that it touched were captured in the gravitational field and transported to the dish on top of the instrument on the tripod. They were then photographed and information recorded in a data box beside the frame pending their return to the moon in distinct or indistinct form.
The scientist at the forefront of the discovery of this machine was Paolo Diskinnakoy. His beard touched the keyboard upon which he typed formulas. The egg like energy capsule was positioned in the centre of the tripod legs. About halfway down the tripod holes had been drilled. Attachments fastened the corners of what appeared to be material with holes in. It was actually spun from the thread of ralit tufts and was the strongest material in the known solar system.
Paola had discovered how to calculate the de-materialisation and re-materialisation of inanimate objects by making a shortcut past the need to manipulate the particle constitution of matter. He sucked anti matter from the atmosphere and by multiplying its quantity when surrounding matter had found it acted as a type of oil and dissolved weight. The object could then be either projected away or drawn towards a given point at tremendous speed.
That morning Paolo had decided to try a minor change in strength and density of the transmitted rays. He put on his shadow goggles and picked up his cup of steaming coffee and leant back in his chair. He traced the chip on the rim of the cup with his tongue and watched the screen intently. The broken electronic lines traced the pathway taken by the invisible rays.
A few minutes passed before he realized that there was something different about the shape on the screen. It formed a prism and then shot up in a straight line. Paolo put his cup down on the corner of the desk and slid forward on his chair. He felt the pressure of the base of the desk on his knees.

Posted By: gnollslayer Feb 07, 2005 - 08:25 am

First off, congratulations on writing a novel! I know you aren't finished yet, but you have a good start. I like the setting you've developed for your novel. The following suggestions are made with good intentions, so please don't be upset if it sounds like I'm tearing you down. I'm not. I think this is a good piece of a story, it just needs some fine-tuning.

"The forests in the depth of the mountains of the planet..."

This sounds a little awkward, and I'm not sure if the forests are inside the mountains or if they are on the mountain slopes. From this wording, it sounds like they should be inside. From your other description it sounds like they are on the outside of the mountain.

"On Mount Rafteli, where the heavily wooded slopes dropped off into the sea, there was an area called ‘The Electrical Mile’ in scientific circles. This was because of the prevalent lightning bolts and spiral storms."

This description breaks the flow of the passage. Try smoothing it out by trimming excess words, even cutting out some of the information. I don't think it's necessary to know that this mountain is heavily wooded, because you already stated that about the mountains in general.

"The main framework consisted of three rectangular poles joined together at the top, and upon which a dish was balanced. The dish emitted invisible rays vertically."

You can smooth this out as well. The dish being balanced atop the framework gives the impression that it could easily fall of. Maybe it could be affixed to the top. Also, if you point out that the dish faces skyward, you could cut the second sentence in this quote and say that its unseen rays traveled to the moon in the next sentence.

"...egg like..." should be "egg-like," I think.

When you mention the ralit tufts, you could just go out and say that the material on the tripod is made of ralit to begin with. That way you won't have to describe the material, then give it the name and background; you can do that all at once instead.

"leant back" should be "leaned back."

That's it for the comments. Good luck with your book, and I hope you finish quickly.

Posted By: Magus Feb 07, 2005 - 11:58 am

I'll read it as soon as I can. But right now I'm typing on borrowed time and my lesson will start any minute now.

Posted By: woody000 Feb 09, 2005 - 06:09 am

*coughs loudly*

If he knows REAL English, English as it should be, then it IS "leant back".

That probably sounds very arrogant.

*doesn't care*

As for the passage, I'll read it and comment later

Posted By: gnollslayer Feb 09, 2005 - 10:48 am

English as it should be would not spell it as "leaned back" or "leant back." American English and "real" English have both been corrupted from the original Germanic tongue by the introduction of Latinate words during periods of heavy contact with the French, and to a degree this also influenced the spelling of most words.

Posted By: woody000 Feb 09, 2005 - 11:36 am

True. I went a bit overboard cause I hate it when people say that a version of English which is the closest to the original (maybe only just, but it is still true), is wrong. Unless you know the person is definately American of course. =p

Actually "leaned back" doesn't sound too bad to me. One that really bugs me is "learned"... I shudder whenever anyone says that. It's the sort of thing an idiot in England would say, which makes it more irritating when the US always use it. Where as if someone said "leaned" in England, it wouldn't sound stupid, in fact most people probably wouldn't notice. Not sure quite why. Burned doesn't seem too bad to me, but dreamed does, that I would shudder at unless it was dreamt. Spoiled isn't too bad, but spelled is aweful (spelt). I think really I would have shuddered at them all if it wasn't for American TV programmes.

Anyway, just a little pet peeve of mine... I don't mind the way you replace the letter s with the letter z often, I only see that as minor. I also don't care that things have different meanings either. But there's a big difference between learned and learnt, leaned and leant etc.

Erm... what else... Oh yeah, technically for us "I lost my ring." is incorrect, it should be "I've lost my ring." but over there it's acceptable.

Don't really care whether you use an "o" or "ou" in words like colour.

To us it has to be "Have you written your paper yet?" not "Did you write your paper yet?"

The past participle of "get" is "got", not "gotten".

For us it's "at the weekend", never ever "on the weekend", you're "in a boat", not "on a boat", "in a team", not "on a team".

I think this one might be a myth, but can you say "please write me soon," instead of "please write to me soon"?

Ok, I'm going on now, I'll be quiet. =p

Posted By: woody000 Feb 09, 2005 - 12:00 pm

Now... the actual topic of the thread lol.

"On Mount Rafteli, where the heavily wooded slopes dropped off into the sea, there was an area called ‘The Electrical Mile’ in scientific circles. "

I'm not 100% sure why, but this sentence didn't quite work for me. Seemed kinda run-on (though I don't actually know what a run-on sentence is, I have to embarrasingly admit.) I think maybe it'd feel better if it was "there was an area, known in scientific circles as 'The Electric Mile'". Yeah, that sounds better to me.

"They were then spread on the surface of the moon and the particles within the immediate vicinity that it touched were captured in the gravitational field and transported to the dish on top of the instrument on the tripod."

This reads a bit long two, maybe split it up.

"They were then photographed and information recorded in a data box beside the frame pending their return to the moon in distinct or indistinct form."

I feel like I want to breathe in the middle, not as bad as the one above, but a bit. Maybe: "They were then photographed and information (was?) recorded in a data box, which was beside the frame pending their return to the moon; (whether this be?) in distinct or indistinct form." Something like that =p the meaning may have been lost on me though when I read the isolated sentence, hence the question marks.

"About halfway down the tripod holes had been drilled."

A comma after tripod?


"Attachments fastened the corners of what appeared to be material with holes in."

You shouldn't end a sentence with a preposition. Though I sometimes get these wrong because I understand it's not as simple as just looking at the word at the end. But anyway, you could just add an "it" to the end I believe.

"Paola had discovered how to calculate the de-materialisation and re-materialisation of inanimate objects by making a shortcut past the need to manipulate the particle constitution of matter."

Firstly, how can you calculate a materialisation? That isn't a quantity surely? Maybe you need a couple of words before it to make it more specific.

Secondly, should it be "finding a shortcut"?


"anti matter" should be hyphenated.

"He sucked anti matter from the atmosphere and by multiplying its quantity when surrounding matter had found it acted as a type of oil and dissolved weight"

Although I am having trouble making sense of "multiplying its quantity"... do you mean "with", rather than "when"? Either way you might be better changing this to make it sound more feasible.

"He put on his shadow goggles and picked up his cup of steaming coffee and leant back in his chair."

The first and should be replaced with a comma.

"It formed a prism and then shot up in a straight line. Paolo put his cup down on the corner of the desk and slid forward on his chair."

It "shot upWARDS".

If you live outside of the US, then it definately should be "slid forward IN his chair." It MIGHT be ok in the US, I'm not really sure about this one.

Posted By: woody000 Feb 10, 2005 - 02:20 pm

hmm... no-one seems to be replying... could someone please confirm whether or not "slid forward ON his chair" is acceptable in the US?

Posted By: Bmat Feb 10, 2005 - 02:35 pm

I'm not sure, but I think slid forward on his chair means that he scooted his chair forward. Slid forward in his chair means he remained seated in his chair but moved toward the front of the chair.

How about; "He set his cup on the table and leaned forward."

Posted By: gnollslayer Feb 10, 2005 - 04:57 pm

IN his chair sounds better, even in the US. I don't know if ON is incorrect though.

Posted By: Jude Feb 10, 2005 - 06:19 pm

I am going to be a grammar wiz by the time I process all this advice. I think I might lose the chair and have him standing. I am from Australia so perhaps he should do something like 'he leaned/leant/slid/sat back on his chair and rested both feet on the table before the screen?' I have been working on my map of the solar system, called Atomil's eyes this morning. Do you guys do a map of your planet systems or take one specific planet or space area and focus on that? I am trying to figure out a way to show pre warp and warp space paths. Also, does it matter what way a planet turns and does the moon or moons have to orbit the other direction in order to have proper tidal effect?

Posted By: Magus Feb 10, 2005 - 06:25 pm

I know that I said I'd read it on Monday and I'm sorry that it took me untill Thursday night to get to it. Let it suffice to say I've been busy lately. But I have read it.

First off, spoken dialogue is only about 5% of communication. It seems that you're working mostly through dialogue. Personally I think that you should use more narroration. Show as opposed to tell, understand? Seeing something happen is much more efect then telling it. Describe the characters, what they're doing, how they sound, what the think, what they feel, etc...

Also you say they'll be "burnt". I think that there might be a better word... maybe incinerate...

Overall it's a good start. But it should be revised before moving on.

GOOD LUCK!

Posted By: woody000 Feb 10, 2005 - 11:26 pm

Australia... hmm... you probably either use the same (similar) English to we do in England, or both is acceptable. I don't really know. But the way you automatically used burnt and leant, makes me think that must be the most acceptable, because with US television programmes, unless that's the norm in Australia, you wouldn't have.

I hadn't actually though of sliding on a chair, as in with the chair. Good point. Maybe for that though it would be better if it was stated implicitely, or at least mentioned that the chair has wheels just previously.

Posted By: Perseus Feb 24, 2005 - 06:18 am

I also would like to be a writer, and as I am just starting out myself, I believe I know what you are going through. It can be overwhelming. I am no expert, but let me drop just a few things on you that I have picked up in my travels.

For the Leaned vs. Leant issue, I believe that which word that you use should be determined by the speech tag (accent) that you wish the speak to have. (i.e. the reason for the two different words is that with a brittish accent, leaned seems awkward as it rolls off of the tongue, and if you use leant with one of the many american accents, it is just as awkward. So, ask yourself which accent you would like to portray, and use those differences to your advantage in character development.

Another editing trick I picked up is, once you finish writing something, put it away for a few weeks to a month. If you read it right away, your mind will skip over your mistakes. Wait until the story is still fresh in your mind, but your exact words are not. It will give you a fresh perspective on the editing of the first draft.

Now to the story, here are some thoughts as I read through it, but remember this is your story, and all advice should be taken with a grain of salt...

‘Permission to speak, sir,’ said Parla as he manoeuvred closer to Cruser and pointed into the distance.

This is a question without a question mark. Perhaps it should be "Permission to speak sir?" said Parla...
You do not need the comma between speak and sir unless you wish to show a pause in speach. As for me, I would stop it at said Parla. and then make the rest of the movement take place in its own sentence. That is just a matter of person style though. Also, if these two individuals serve together, might they be less formal? If it is just the two of them facing a new world, couldn't Parla already have the permission without constantly having to ask? Again up to you but something to ask yourself. Put yourself in both of their shoes and decide that way what would be most appropriate. Also I do not like the way "We will be burnt.." rolls off the tongue. Maybe use another reference to get your point across. "This atomosphere is too thin to protect us from then sun..." .

Your setting is very imaginative. I think the reason why it is not reading well is because you are info-dumping. Dropping the whole world right into our laps, as if to just get it over with. Try unvailing the setting through the actions of Parla and Cruser, or through the action of the plot. That might make it flow better for you. The dialoge puts us in the perspective of the two travelers, then the block of setting following it asks us to back out again into a larger view of the world. I can't tell if I am explaining my feelings here correctly or not, but I tried.

I'm not sure where the story is going at this point. If the story is about Paolo, then why do we meet Parla and Cruser in the beginning but never see them again? If this story is about Parla and Cruser, then Paolo should meet them, and then his discoveries and actions could fit into Parla and Crusers mission some how.

Anyway, keep up the good work. You are doing better than you probably realize. Write every day, and things will flow from your keyboard or pen a little easier as you go. If you learn just one thing every day and utilize it in your writing than you win. You have a good imagination. You just need to take more time in plot development, decide where you are going and what you want this to say ahead of time; so that way your description and dialog will all be flowing towards the same destination.