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Scifi and Fantasy Forum: Writer's Discussion: Requests :
Kinds of Magic in Fantasy, or, give me some rules!
Kinds of Magic in Fantasy, or, give me some rules!
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Posted By:  Eleica Dec 08, 2001 - 04:57 pm |       | I dunno. You've got a point there ... thing is, he tries to make it sound like you have to have it really dawn on you to have magic ... and once you factor out the simpletons/peasants, snotty scholars, and everyone else too narrow minded, there's a lot less people that could have the sense to think of it. However, it did seem a bit too easy. It was done a bit better in the Sparhawk books. I haven't read his other, newest one yet.
Really? I'll have to check out the rest of the Tamuli then...I've only read one of them (just like me to get the middle one instead of one end of the other and get completely lost). I just enjoy making myself crazy I think, which is why I post so many  s
hehe
Krastakin that is crazy! But don't worry I'm sure madness is really just a form of genius (well thats what I keep telling the men in white coats - why won't they listen! Ahem excuse me...)
ANYWAY! I've been having serious arguments with myself about this recently as I'm trying to come up with 'rules' for my world at the mo. I came to the conclusion that you can have magic that comes from something within a person (ie an innate ability they are born with) or magic from another thing/person (ie the magic river/magic item etc etc) or magic from the world/universe itself.
I've been thinking of magic more in terms of meditation - y'know how Shaolin monks can do loads of mad stuff as a result of their ability to 'focus' etc? But then extending that principle to focusing so much you can actually change the world, sounds kind of druidic I s'pose. So basically this is the third kind - magic from the universe, in that there are certain 'powers' which the average layman is not aware of (auras, spirits etc) but which the magic user can manipulate. It's all based on natural powers and stuff but, as you can probably tell, I haven't quite worked out the details yet!
Hope you'll excuse my random ramblings....
| Posted By: Khael Dec 11, 2001 - 08:27 am | | One thing i have just recently noticed is that everybody is so concerned with explaining there magic that they take the magic out of it. Its MAGIC! its called magic becasue its purely fictitious and doesn't have to be explained! When you start to explain it it becomes spiritual science, not magic. Think fairy tales people.
Now dont get mne worong, i think it is important to establish who can use magic, and what the extent of there power is, but you dont have to explain how it happens! its magic! You dont have to explain how the ring exerts positive ions which bend the light around user, rendering him invisible! Its a magic ring! You dont have to explain how the wand sends a message to another plane which is relied to this dieties black guard which in turn scorch the spot on this plane...Its a magic wand! MAGIC!
You can explain how the magic was first brought to your land, you dont have to but you can. Its also good to establish the extent of the power, but you dont always have to. But just remember, its magic, it doesn't need explaining. If you love explaining things so much, then write sci-fi. Fantasy is fanatsy which means its fantasy. 
[heaves out a huge breath]
THANK YOU KHAEL!!!!!
and thanks for confirming Faeriegirl...I know I'm completely insane.
I agree with Khael...magic shouldn't have any boundaries but the ones you set on it! If there was a set magic, it wouldn't be magic, it'd be scientific law etc...I guess science is just predictable magic, eh?
| Posted By: Eleica Dec 11, 2001 - 09:50 pm | | I agree that magic shouldn't have to be explained, though I admit my ultimate explanation for magic in Takara is kinda scifi. However, it has to have some sort of "rules" in each world, or anyone with magic could do anything and it would be really stupid (not that I'm suggesting anyone's said this).
An example of this is seen in two of the stupidest books I've ever read, "Of Two Minds" and its even stupider sequel, "More Minds". I forget who wrote them but I don't care because I'll never touch them again.
Argh *mutters about books with great plot ideas and horrible writing* - mind you, those books didn't even have a good plot.
hmmmm (thinks about Eleica's first remark). I did that...because the magic in my story is based on mental power and physical power, it's not element based at all. So if you have the right ideas about magic, then you can do pretty much anything. But a lot of people don't get around to doing anything, and there's always someone more powerful around to stop anyone else from doing something TOO damaging
Does that make sense? hehe Just me bein my crazy self.
| Posted By: gedren_y Dec 13, 2001 - 09:47 am | | Magic Rules are always tricky.
In some realities, magic can be used by anyone if they only learn how.
In other realities, magic can only be used by those born with power, or have the pottential for power.
You have to decide how the characters are able to use magic. You can work your magic usage framework up from that.
| Posted By: Eleica Dec 13, 2001 - 10:48 pm | | Yes, and it also depends on what you want the characters to accomplish, and what resources they should/should not have at their fingertips during the story.
First off i would like to say hello to everyone. I stumbled upon this site and really Love it. Thank you.
I have thought much about the use of magic in my own stories and have come up with this little idea as to the price of magic.
Everytime that magic is used, be it from a scroll, artifact, inate, or spell book part of the surrounding nature is absobed and depleated.
Which is to say that during a battle a mage casts a lightning bolt spell, well not only are his or her enemies toast but also say that everything living within a ten foot circle around the casted dies or withers.
The more powerful the spell the larger the area that is affected.
If a caster is in a building it could also cause structular damage or weakening.
The possibilities are endless.
What is a spell so powerful was cast that every living plant on the planet or continent was to die? or a building was to utterly collapse? would the caster still be ready or willing to cast it? Only you, as the writer can know.
Thank you for letting me rammble and please excuse the spelling...Jim
good system Jim. 
And welcome to the forum!
I've said this before...but I think the only real limitation to magic is it's cost. And that cost can be anything from (to use his example) a toad somewhere off dieing from a loss of energy, to the world exploding! Just make sure that the cost fits.
| Posted By: Asherah Jul 02, 2002 - 04:54 am | | I was reading these messages with great interest! I have been working on a fantasy world building for nearly a year now and I have slowly aquired a small understanding of my magic system. Cost, of all things is very important. However, I do not think this cost has to be dramatic change. The change can come from the magic user's conscience. The cost to the magic user would be greater to the individual than to the external world, this makes the decisions of that character more difficult as that person has to live the consequences of his/her own use of magic.
Perhaps the individual dies younger or perhaps they can fall mentally or physically ill. Perhaps the personality changes when magic is used, that could make people wary of them..?
I personally like the idea that magic is mysterious and that it has no obvious meaning, but don't forget that there are probably many forms of magic and with magic comes different magic beliefs. Some people in your fictional world may believe that magic is a gift from their Gods, others may think magic is part of nature. Someone spoke of "spiritual science" but even spiritual science can be mysterious and unexplained. Yes, the unexplained is good for fantasy,if you look at the world around us, none of us have the answers as to why we came about, some are religious beliefs others are scientific, all "answers" are theories. Human beings are always looking for theories. To keep your magic realistic, the main conflict could be the differences in beliefs on magic. There is great room for conflict between magic users with different ideas. Even if magic cannot blow up the world or make you fly, just the percieved concept could be enough for others to come to blows!! The effects of magic may be small scale, but its affect on people could be greater!
Excuse this very long message, I go on too much! hehe!
I hope I made sense!!
That's not a long message (hehehe) and it made very good sense to me.
I like your ideas about spiritual conflict...as of yet have none, except that particular magic users are "chosen" (not in a stereotypical self-sacrificial way, my main is as of yet the only known "chosen" person.) Do you mind if I steal it?
I definitely prefer The Elenium/Tamuli to the Belgariad/Mallorean. If you actually understood his ideas, there wouldn't be questions like, "Why can't everyone else do it?" Why CAN'T everyone else wield magic? I thought that was efficiently explained in the Belgariad. Wait, nevermind, that was just something Eddings assumed everyone could grasp. I would have assumed the same in his position. The others obviously can't use the magic for the same reasons not everyone can carry a tune. But in comparison to singing and using the Will and the Word, singing is more natural than the latter. It is something right in front of everyone. Yet some people are born with it, and others are not. Thus it is only a matter than fewer are born with the Will and the Word than singing. I mean, just because magic isn't existent in our world doesn't mean it has to be hard to get in another. It's the philosophy of it that gets me. Some purely evil guy like Sauron forging and weapon indescribable in the extremity of its power, which coincidentally is never revealed in LOTR, is not interesting philosophically.
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