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Posted By: Khael Oct 09, 2001 - 03:10 pm

OK guys i need your advice again. I'm asking you as not only writers, but as readers k? What are the most succesful way to do races? Should tolkenistic races be used? Are new races allowed? Should the reader be able to connect to the races by at least giving them familar names? Is changing the normal races enough, or should a truly creative story have truly creative races? ARG!! this is annoying!

Posted By: Krastakin Oct 10, 2001 - 01:06 am

As a writer, I wouldn't know.

But as a reader, I enjoy looking at new races, as well as some of the old stereotypical ones, as long as they have a twist that gives them something completely new. For example:

Me and a friend of mine are trying to jointly write a story about Unicorns and Dragons, but we are giving them faults and personalities, unlike the unicorns that appear to maidens, and the dragons that eat them. These have never come into contact with humans before.

Does that help?

K

Posted By: Khael Oct 10, 2001 - 07:20 am

SO you think that just changing a race is ok?
What if i mixed in Some new races as well?
Would that be a good blend?

Posted By: The Master Oct 10, 2001 - 10:02 pm

Sure. Quite frankly, I think too many writers lean on the "standby" races: dwarves, elves, orcs, etc. (Dragons and Unicorns are really beastiary, not races--not that you can't make them the focus of your stories of course )

I favor making anything new truly new to truly be unique. I suppose, you could create new halfling races from odd blends, but would almost need to explain why that occured. For example, Elves have fairly well established "relationships" with other races because of the volume of work out there that includes Elven races. You could lose a reader if you just throw them together willy nilly with some other race.

If you want to use Elves (again, for example), perhaps expanding on their typical traits would be interesting. In most stories, Elves are an "ancient" race and humans are the youngest race. You could flip flop that...make Elves the newest race (looked down on as lesser by other races). Or make your Elves the best blacksmiths. Change the expectation just enough to make it interesting.

Posted By: Krastakin Oct 11, 2001 - 12:47 am

Yeah Master!

I was just using that for an example. Our story's in it's early stages...so we haven't figured out everything that's goin to happen in it yet, and the characters aren't fully developed. Hehe I think it'd be funny to see how warped unicorns deal with alien races!!!!

Hehe have fun Khael

Posted By: Khael Oct 11, 2001 - 02:25 pm

Arg!!!

ok...if i invented completewly new races, wouldn't it overwelm the reader and not give him anything hes used to? I'm just scared that if i use completely new races, i'll lose my readers....

But i also dont want to be boring... Have the classic races been used to much? Should some new blood be born?? Do you tolkein would be happy to see his races being messed with? Isn't it called plagerism?? haha jk But seriously, Whats the right balance here?

Posted By: The Master Oct 11, 2001 - 03:54 pm

Many of Tolkien's races weren't his invention either (except for Hobbits of course!).

By all means, you should create new races of beings to populate your stories. It makes your stories unique and interesting. You simply need to spend more time developing them so the reader understands what they are and how they fit into your world.

Its when you use established races that you will need to pay more attention to the general expectations associated with that race. Again taking elves as an example, making them short, stocky creatures that live in caves wouldn't be a good idea. Its just too different.

Why don't you post some of you ideas on the kinds of changes you were thinking about, and the new races you are considering, for feedback?

Posted By: Khael Oct 11, 2001 - 05:37 pm

Hey master, thanks for the input. I realy apreciate it. What about this: Lets say you wanted to make elves Built, savage and dirty. Basicly a complete contradiction of what is normaly elves. Now it would be starnge to do this, unless....You make them a new race...call them something like "tainted elves" or whatever. You would have to keep some of the normal elf properities but basicly they would be clay in your hands!

If i changed a race drasticly i would definatly change the name a bit. I have done this already to Gnomes (star gnomes) dwarves (Swamp Dwarves) Elves (plains elves) and some others as well. Do you think that would work? I just cant stand always using the stereotypical races....

Heres somthing else... Trolls.
Trolls have been described in many different ways. In Tolkein there big (ocasionly 3-headed) ogre like things. In D and D there swamp creatures. In Terry Brooks, there rock solid bulky mountain living things. In my Story there long limbed, fast, tree living creatures.

With a race already so versitile, would changing the name be nessesary?

Posted By: The Master Oct 12, 2001 - 01:16 pm

Fairy tale trolls live under bridges, so I think you're right, trolls are probably more flexible.

I think what you describe would work, but if you are going to have related races (plains elves and tainted elves), they should share major physical characteristics...something that makes them both elves. Otherwise you lose internal consistency and make things confusing.

Posted By: Krastakin Oct 12, 2001 - 01:38 pm

I don't know for the huge-type fantasy reader, but I don't tend to think about what something is that is souly described by it's race, because there are variations in individuals. I tend to like stories that are about the "odd one out". My favorite book is "Aurian" by Maggie Furey, because she thinks that magicians don't have to be the frail, indoorsy type

True, an elf would bring to mind a slightly shorter than human - slightly taller than human humanoid with big ears and a foresty nature, but that's about all I would get from it. I dunno, maybe I need to get back to reading LotR when exams are over