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I'm a noob please grant me your words of wisdom!

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I'm a noob please grant me your words of wisdom!

Postby Topazsag » Wed Jun 27, 2007 12:13 am

Okay I'll describe a little about my writing history. So far I have done most of my writing for school assignments and always had rave reviews and some even suggested submitting them to various contests, magazines etc. I don't have any of them now I feel hanging onto it is worthless. I have a bachelors in Psychology but English has always been my strong suite I just realized that unless I get lucky and my book gets published I'll starve. SO it has been a dream that I've obsessed over and for several months I have developed characters in my mind and the general plot of the story. Considering 99.9% of my writings in the past have been on-the-fly in one sitting no reworks and still had them turn out fantastic!
Planning and research.... well here's part of my research as many of these English/Writing classes I've taken I have yet to hear described the "rules". Like I just read up on previous posts about word counts for Chapters and entire books and yes I'm writing fantasy. But I always wondered what makes a chapter, how do I say this is the cut off because I'm certain it's more than just word count. OMG My noob is showing now another question MAJOR question I have, I want to write for a specific pre-made world. I think I can twink what I have to be a general fantasy novel but what would I have to do to go about proposing my work to be allowed in to "___Insert Popular Fantasy Realm___"? Please don't just tell me to dream on I realize it's an unrealistic goal but I'm looking for constructive criticism on how to work my way up to that point.
Right now my outline only goes up to chapter 6 but I haven't thought of the major plot twist or the ending up yet which should come after these introductory Chapters. Oh any good advice on how to have multiple story lines that merge and correlate I really hate authors (hopefully I don't offend anyone) who just Tell a complete separate story about one character and then swap and do the same for another and then they towards the end they come together and that's the end of the book. Hopefully this all makes sense and I'll get to work on writing my Prologue
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Postby Magus » Wed Jun 27, 2007 2:16 pm

First of all, hello and welcome aboard. I hope that you enjoy yourself here, and further find what you're looking for.

But I always wondered what makes a chapter, how do I say this is the cut off because I'm certain it's more than just word count.


Other people might tell you differently, but word count, in my opinion, if perfectly irrelevent when it comes to chapters. A chapter is just a single unit divided off from the work as a whole.

The simplest way to think of a chapter is to make it a scene, and with every new scene you start a new chapter. However, you could have a chapter covering one particular aspect (whether it be setting, theme, point of chronology or character), and divide that chapter into smaller subsection (which would be the scenes). Ultimately, it's what you decide it to be, and what makes the most sense to you. I've personally done both in the past; it all depends on what you're going for with your writing.

OMG My noob is showing now another question MAJOR question I have, I want to write for a specific pre-made world. I think I can twink what I have to be a general fantasy novel but what would I have to do to go about proposing my work to be allowed in to "___Insert Popular Fantasy Realm___"?


This will vary depending upon several aspects, which include, but aren't limited to, what publisher/world you're going for. The best way to go about this is to find their website and look into the matter. Most often these are given out as commitions.

Oh any good advice on how to have multiple story lines that merge and correlate


I'd suggest the tried and true method: alternate chapters between whichever groups you have. In other words, let's say that you have three groups (call them A, B and C). Chapter one would involve A, chapter 2 B, Chapter 3 C, and so on. Then, at least this is what I would do, you combine them gradually. So group A would run into group B and they'd go on their merry way together, only be find group C and do the same, and later they'd find groups D and E.

I hope that this helps.
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Postby Topazsag » Wed Jun 27, 2007 3:26 pm

Thank you I think this is very helpful I certainly need to look into researching the Website of my dream objective and see what their criteria for submission is. I'm not sure why that hadn't occurred to me :shock: well I have my blond moments for sure.
I think what you said about the chapters makes more sense to me than word counts and that was what I had in mind but I wasn't sure how that worked because I've seen so many authors do it in different ways where one Author might switch between scenes in a chapter with little dividers that to me I thought should've been new chapters with the exception of their brevity. So lets readdress the multiple story lines issue though- I have my 2 main characters who will start off together, then another main character who will be an antagonist and then there will be a group of characters that are the true villains. I'm just trying to avoid writing in a way that it's obvious to the reader what my outline was. Know what I mean? I'm so used to writing everything all in one sitting that it's hard to have an actual outline but I fear that my story will be a confusing mess without one.
So in the meantime can anyone suggest any good beginner writing sites where I can submit essays and short stories? I just want to see if I can get some reader feedback on my writing spot my weaknesses before I try to send off my novel to a major company.
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Postby Magus » Wed Jun 27, 2007 5:05 pm

I've got an absolutely incredible one for you, which I'm sure is right up your alley, right here (specifically here and here.

So, just out of curiosity, what established "world" was it that you were interested in writing for?
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Postby aldan » Wed Jun 27, 2007 7:04 pm

Most often these are given out as commitions.


Um, Magus, the word you were looking for (I believe) was 'commissions'.

I believe that Magus meant that such things are done by the specific publisher for that particular world, and it's to that publisher that you'd need to send your work. However, most publishers of 'shared worlds' of the sort that it sounds like you're considering are very resistant to just accepting such works right off the street. Therefore, I'd suggest that you see if they accept them at all, and then if they do, send them a few short stories based in their world to consider. That way, they can see the quality of your writing, how well you know their world, and also will be able to know that you aren't a 'one-hit-wonder'....
"It is better to keep your mouth shut and to appear stupid than
to open it and remove all doubt."
---Mark Twain
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Postby Topazsag » Wed Jun 27, 2007 9:55 pm

Just the thought of submitting anything to.. I'm scared you'll fall over laughing and I'll never hear the end of it if I actually admit (at this point) what I'm shooting for.

I'm almost certain they don't take work from un-established writers but I haven't researched it at all just for fear of knowing the truth. Leave my blinders alone!
:wink:
In the mean time I guess I'll submit some stuff for the forum and get some feedback I think I'll start with something I did at school that I think is positively the WORST thing I've ever written just because of the word count and other restraints the teacher put on the paper. One positive thing I did get out of that class and that I'm still trying to work on is not just telling the reader things but SHOWING them. It's a lot harder than it sounds! SO any other links outside of this site to consider :?
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Postby Magus » Wed Jun 27, 2007 10:02 pm

:rofl:

OH! OUTSIDE of here!

:roll:

Well, you should have said that before.

:wink:

I would have shown you this instead.
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Postby LightBrigade » Tue Jul 03, 2007 5:42 pm

aldan wrote:... Um, Magus, the word you were looking for (I believe) was 'commissions'.
Um, Aldan, I think you missed 'irrelev_a_nt' and 'subsection_s_'. :smt096

Topazsag wrote:I have a bachelors in Psychology but English has always been my strong suite I just realized that unless I get lucky and my book gets published I'll starve.
Few base their livelihood on revenue from their authoring career. Especially for a first-timer, it may be unwise.

Topazsag wrote:SO it has been a dream that…
Is it your need to earn an income through writing, then, that makes you write? Not anything else? You need to know the answer for yourself clearly so that you know how to move about.

If it is an income, forget what you want, what you dream, what you create, what you imagine, what you are good at. See what the market wants _now_ and do it as best as you are able to. A couple of drafts, copycut stuff _absolutely_ in whatever bright or lowly current prevails in the times, plus what promotion little screw Publishers need and get into the street door to door. If you last (not only persist) enough, you may eventually sell.

Topazsag wrote:But I always wondered what makes a chapter, how do I say this is the cut off because I'm certain it's more than just word count.
If you do not know what makes a chapter, begin at what makes a sentence, then what makes a period, then what makes a paragraph. When you are familiar with producing too many flops here (post for critique after you do your own critical analysis and evaluation _first and foremost_) , you can wonder what makes a chapter, if it is not clear by then.

Word count and chapters! What myths have you been being told here?

Topazsag wrote:what would I have to do to go about proposing my work to be allowed in to…
Read and study (even by own meticulous research) to learn to distinguish genre. It is of the foundation research that goes with pro writing. Then, it is market research.

Topazsag wrote:…I'm looking for constructive criticism on how to work my way up to that point….
Criticism a writer gets for her or his literary work. Criticism for your authoring career, you get from friends. We are all very friendly here *smile* Whether the criticism you receive is constructive, now, who said only you of all people is about to get only that?

Meaning

Hold your heart and hold your ideas about writing dear at your chest for you are to hear a lot of upsetting things about your work and your course to success. Even by people meaning good, you can not reasonably hope to get only what you want to hear. It may be constructive, it may be their best yet for you, inadvertent or foul or erroneous, or far off what you tell them, of what you show to them.

Some may by habit come to hurt; it is what gives meaning to their existence. Others will do it of ignorance or worse. Forgive them for they will be merely of those barbarians who think the customs of their tribe are the laws of the universe (Julius Caesar).

Topazsag wrote:Right now my outline only goes up to chapter 6 but I haven't thought of the major plot twist or the ending up yet which should come after these introductory Chapters.
Distance yourself from the immediate need, and embrace the whole work. See it as one whole.

What does this child of yours need now?

Topazsag wrote:Oh any good advice on how to have multiple story lines that merge and correlate…
Do they? Or must they because you wish they do?

If they do, expand and let us talk about it.

Topazsag wrote:I really hate authors..
Let them do their work. You do yours.

Topazsag wrote:I appreciate your patronage!
If you really do, I suggest you fill your tub with earth and bury all your writing work in it. So that it gets used to the rotting smell of the tomb.

No one can patronage a creator. For as a creator you are free . You are free to be yourself. And shine.

If others are around, all are on the same path, others here, others there, all students of the Art. To tell one coming behind where the path ends on the right or left, or where the path becomes precipitous, is colleague attitude and good will and love, not patronage.
- - -
Magus showed you the place in SV where you can post work seeking critique for it. He also showed you where you can start looking for other opportunities and paths for your writing. Use it all.

All these worlds are yours. Treat them in Peace. (Arthur Clarke).

Now, you can also tell me what I did not catch so that I can be of good use.
When people agree with me, I always feel that I must be wrong. -- Oscar Wilde --
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