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Postby Havoc » Tue Jul 05, 2005 2:07 pm

Of course there will be an extra emotional link for the reader when the story is told on a more personal level. But I really wanted to avoid that because it has been done so often that I started to get sick of it. I start to predict events in books and turn out to be right, as soon as this happens the genre is no longer healthy so I wanted something less predictable. I opted for more distance and thus the ability to let action be decided on other things apart from character-personality.

I eliminate the problem of having the main protagonist be a real hero or stereotypical variation there-off. So any of the wars protagonists can act more life-like by opting to save their own skin, or by making an error that will cost the lives of many men. If I wrote the war from a more personal point, I'd have to worry about alienating readers by having characters make drastic choices that don't go well with the audience. Choices such as the main hero opting to save his own skin over that of the family in hiding.

However, I've been thinking about putting letters written during the war into the book, along with explanations from the historian. That way the reader would get the objective history as it is known to have occurred, and a view through a window in time. Would that satisfy your 'need' for emotional attachment?


Edit for Spiderkeg:
Why is this one special? Well, who said there haven't been other books? If you check the story of Alexander the Great for example you'll find that modern historians usually point towards three different ancient historians (I don't know their names by heart). This will probably happen in my book as well, quoting existing works on the subject yet pointing out that their theories have never been truly proven. This is why I do research in history books, how do modern historians cope with existing works?

And of course, this historian isn't a human, he's an elf.

(I had honestly not thought about the possibility of me having to defend the reasons for why a character who takes up such a minor role in the book chose to write a book..... hehehehe)
It's the pacing mate.... PACING!!!
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Postby Anthentar » Tue Jul 05, 2005 6:22 pm

And perhaps start each chapter with a quote from the period. A famous saying or something of the like. It could add a little bit of personal depth. Yes, those letters could be most intriguing
"He who fights with monsters should be careful lest he thereby become one. And if you gaze long into an abyss, the abyss will also gaze into you." - Beyond Good and Evil, aphorism 146
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Postby LightBrigade » Tue Jul 05, 2005 8:12 pm

In addition to the wonderful ideas offered by Magus, Anthentar, Neuro, Spiderkeg and Manji (excuse me if I have missed to mention a friend),

Half-breeds: in the world we know, they are sterile. What about the possibilities in an elven world?

Timeline: very useful suggestions for additions (Anthentar).

Spiderkeg's technology advance idea can serve beyond the DNA engineering solution mentioned. It affects the timeline as it is long itself. How it does, the Historian will have to report.

Love for History (Manji) and the extra (Neuro) emotional connection (is the Historian a descendant, perhaps?) are realistic and useful ideas.

Good point about the arguments (Alexander), it will enrich the book.

Havoc's question about the characters: as it was suggested already. More particular, it could be the leaders of clans and races who have made history by their decisions; also by the influence of the elite, the courts around them whose interests lie with whatever the Historian may discover (open ground for the author here).

Which takes us to the key point:

Havoc, is what you describe enough to constitute a causus belli? A cause for war merely because half-breeds appeared?

A major concern throughout what I read here has been why should a war-tormented race (Katori), refugees already, ousted of their homeland, seek more clashing as if their survival and progress were a secondary consideration. It could be that I have read perhaps in a hurry?

Even if so, Havoc, you may like to consider the causes again, in general. Why is the first war taking place anyway? What causes are there, how realistic are they? Why the next wars? Please, take into account that no matter what,

_normally_

a parent is always a parent.

Individually, deprived lives and misfortune may lead parenthood to hysteresis and lagging. In a collective body, parenthood can not perhaps be ignored in the known forms of life both in the real world as well as that of fiction.
When people agree with me, I always feel that I must be wrong. -- Oscar Wilde --
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Postby LightBrigade » Tue Jul 05, 2005 8:24 pm

I forgot to mention. Havoc, please, get on it. Of what information you have generously offered us here, you must be the first reason why I am going to read a book of fantasy - over and through ages of some obscure reluctance to read of that genre. *s*
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Postby Oliverez » Tue Jul 05, 2005 8:53 pm

Alaskamatt17 wrote:Magus, I think there have actually been a few successful attempts at breeding Ligers with other Ligers. I don't know where I saw it, but there was this one zoo's webpage that explained it.


And here I thought Ligers were fictional. CRAZY :shock:
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Postby LightBrigade » Tue Jul 05, 2005 9:10 pm

Here is what we know today.

Male ligers are sterile.

Female ligers are often fertile and can be mated to a tiger resulting in ti-liger offspring or to a lion resulting in li-liger offspring.

With tigons, a cross between a male tiger and a female lion, most tigons are sterile, but a tigon named Noelle in the Shambala Reserve mated with a tiger to produce a "ti-tigon".
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Postby Havoc » Wed Jul 06, 2005 2:10 am

Where to start?

Halfbreeds. Halfbreeds affected by magic I should say. The world is heavy with magic, there is a lot of very powerful magic. So I wouldn't compare them to Ligers or whatever.

The Katori aren't war-tormented. They are the closest thing to an evil race on my world, even while the Goblins are present. They are like racists, like nazi's. They can't suffer their blood to mingle with that of inferior races (in this case the Orc) and so they first tried to experiment on the Kaetra. They wanted to purify Kaetran blood to purely Orc or purely Katori, and they really didn't mind if their magics killed the Kaetra instead. On our own world there are plenty of examples of halfbreeds being shunned just as much their parentage. Often a white parent would ostracize the child with black blood in it.

This experimentation resulted in a fully fertile species. The Kaetra can now mate with other of their own kind but not with Katori or Orc. It's not exactly what the Katori planned so they plan to just exterminate the pests and then make sure no halfbreed will come to be again. This decision will be their undoing.

As for the first war. I don't know yet, I'm thinking of Great War type of conflict but I first have to do some research on that one.

@ Anthentar: Good point about the Quotes. I'm sure that throughout Orcish oral accounts of the war some quotes or sayings have arisen and are used to the day.

I forgot to mention. Havoc, please, get on it. Of what information you have generously offered us here, you must be the first reason why I am going to read a book of fantasy - over and through ages of some obscure reluctance to read of that genre. *s*

:shock: :salut:

I'm not much of a writer though, I'm usually just heavy on ideas, light on execution of said ideas.
It's the pacing mate.... PACING!!!
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Postby Havoc » Wed Jul 06, 2005 7:17 am

Not only that, BUT
Chaotically minded as I am I am usually working on several projects at once. So while doing my research for the history book I'm also fleshing out the same world in order to use it as a Dungeons and Dragons backdrop (nearly have all the races done, just one more to go/do over) and I've just started a short story on the same world.

Actually, this might be more of Anthentar's cup of tea, since it's the historian's memoirs as he travels to Kaor in order to meet with the Orcs in preparation for his book. It's his diary so it should explain more about why he wants to write about this. It's also a great way for me to get some details and names sorted out in a writing progress. Since I usually just write by making it up as I go along rather than planning ahead, this will get the ideas flowing.
It's the pacing mate.... PACING!!!
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Postby Spiderkeg » Wed Jul 06, 2005 7:38 am

With the help of science, in the last few years scientists have been able to mate male and female ligers together successfully.
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Postby Magus » Wed Jul 06, 2005 8:53 am

But for all intents and purposes, when not assisted by another species, they fail to reproduce amongst themselves.
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Postby Spiderkeg » Wed Jul 06, 2005 9:29 am

Ah yes, it is the Darwin way.
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Postby Anthentar » Wed Jul 06, 2005 10:02 am

Well, if they were never meant to be bred together, then they shouldn't breed together. True half-breeds (not like a mutt born of the same race but of two different types of that race) are most unusual and do seem most unnatural. It's natures way of saying that this was not supposed to happen, so they can't start a new race

Anyway, back to Havoc's short story. That is an interesting idea. So this would be the same historian that will serve as narrator in your book, correct?
"He who fights with monsters should be careful lest he thereby become one. And if you gaze long into an abyss, the abyss will also gaze into you." - Beyond Good and Evil, aphorism 146
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