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The Hadron Collider

"What would happen if...?" has always been a staple of Science Fiction. What do you wonder about?

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Re: The Hadron Collider

Postby Dark Knight » Fri Sep 12, 2008 3:59 pm

[offtopic]Qray, we will have to disagree on that... he maintains it wether required or not...and that is the last point I make here on that, unless you want to countine elsewhere...[/offtopic]

nightlock wrote:The Nightlock would prefer we get back onto science and leave religion for other forums


Right back to the Hadron Collider and the wait for the real tests to begin...
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Re: The Hadron Collider

Postby Dark Knight » Fri Sep 12, 2008 7:33 pm

First Death

Large Hadron Collider fears 'prompted Indian suicide'

A teenage Indian girl killed herself after being traumatised by media reports that the activation of the Large Hadron Collider in Switzerland could spark a "Big Bang" that would destroy the world, her father said.

The 16-year old girl from the central state of Madhya Pradesh drank pesticide and was rushed to the hospital but later died, police said.

Her father, identified on local television as Biharilal, said that his daughter, Chayya, killed herself after watching doomsday predictions made on Indian news programmes.

"In the past two days, Chayya had asked me and other relatives about the world coming to an end on Sept. 10," Biharilal was quoted as saying.

"We tried to divert her attention and told her she should not worry about such things, but to no avail," he said.

For the past two days, many Indian news channels held discussions airing doomsday predictions over the particle-smashing machine.

Large Hadron Collider, was switched on , at the start of what experts say is the largest scientific

The machine smashes particles together to achieve, on a small-scale, re-enactments of the "Big Bang" that created the universe.

Leading scientists and researchers at the European Organisation for Nuclear Research, said the experiment was safe. They dismissed as "pure fiction" doomsday predictions that the experiment could create anti-matter, or black holes.

But in deeply religious and superstitious India, fears about the experiment and the minor risks associated with it spread rapidly through the media.

from http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... icide.html
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Re: The Hadron Collider

Postby Neurolanis » Tue Sep 16, 2008 5:04 pm

Just responding to the initial post here...

Risking the entire PLANET for a science experiment? Why does that not surprise me?

Obviously it's insane, no sane person would allow such a thing to take place. :crazy:
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Re: The Hadron Collider

Postby Dark Knight » Tue Sep 16, 2008 5:52 pm

After hacker infiltrations and magnet worries last week, finally actual proton-to-proton beam collisions might be tried the end of this week or next week at speeds only 10 mph slower than the speed of light, but with less energy than the 10 to 14 trillion electron volts that are the goal of the LHC experimenters. That energy level is not expected until some time in 2009 after all the magnets have been tested at lower energy levels.

from http://www.earthfiles.com/index.php

So the end of this week or next week there is a micro chance of the world ending... but they will give it a real go in 2009... could be half a year away before they really test this baby...

Updated September 15, 2008 - It was last week on Wednesday, September 10, 2008, near Geneva, Switzerland, the Large Hadron Collider (LHC) fired only a single beam of protons around the 17-mile-long underground circular tunnel - not two beams of protons hitting head-to-head near the speed of light.

Two reasons: First, LHC wanted to test hardware and magnets first. Second, shortly after the firing, computer hackers broke into the computers connected to the Compact Muon Solenoid Detector (CMSD) and left this message: “We're pulling your pants down because we don't want to see you running around naked looking to hide yourselves when the panic comes.”

Physicist Joseph Lykken heads the CMSD science team and told me today that the hackers themselves closed the “hacked doorway” through which they entered. Further, none of the computers controlling the actual LHC proton beam collisions have any connections to the outside world for precisely the reason to prevent hackers from interfering with such a powerful laboratory as the LHC.
from http://www.earthfiles.com/news.php?ID=1 ... ry=Science

Don't panic the hackers can't turn the thing on... "PANIC" the scientists are going to destory the world.. in 2009!

Neurolanis wrote:Just responding to the initial post here...

Risking the entire PLANET for a science experiment? Why does that not surprise me?

Obviously it's insane, no sane person would allow such a thing to take place. :crazy:


“We think there is a possibility that the LHC can produce black holes.
Where the disagreement lies (with law suit physicists) is whether or not these
black holes would be dangerous or not. … You try to do things as safely as
possible, and we think the LHC is 100% safe. But there is always that
little nervousness about what is going to happen when you turn all this on?”
- Joseph Lykken, Ph.D., Fermi Lab Particle Physicist


"But there is always that little nervousness"

So is it safe or not?

WHY DO YOU FEEL SO CONFIDENT WHILE OTHER PHYSICISTS WENT SO FAR AS TO FILE A LAWSUIT?

The reason I feel so confident is that we are not the only people who build particle accelerators. Nature builds particle accelerators out in our galaxy. In fact, we have seen evidence for particle accelerators in our galaxy and other galaxies that are up to 10 million times as powerful as the LHC. Those very high energy particles produced by natural accelerators are hitting the Earth all the time. It’s what we call cosmic rays.

[ Editor’s Note: Wikipedia - “Cosmic rays are energetic particles originating from space that impinge on Earth's atmosphere. Almost 90% of all the incoming cosmic ray particles are protons, about 9% are helium nuclei (alpha particles) and about 1% are electrons (beta minus particles). The term ‘ray’ is a misnomer, as cosmic particles arrive individually, not in the form of a ray or beam of particles. The origins of these particles range from energetic processes on the Sun all the way to as yet unknown events in the farthest reaches of the visible universe. Cosmic rays can have energies of over 1020 eV, far higher than the 1012 to 1013 eV that man-made particle accelerators can produce.” ]

And we know, because we have detected cosmic rays, that some of the particles hitting Earth as cosmic rays have much higher energies than anything we are going to do at the LHC. And cosmic rays have apparently not produced black holes that swallow the Earth, otherwise we would not be here!


from http://www.earthfiles.com/news.php?ID=1 ... ry=Science

There you have it particle accelerators don't produce black holes...
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Re: The Hadron Collider

Postby nightlock » Wed Sep 17, 2008 1:10 am

It's all fear mongering and shocktv, or in this case.... shockinternet.

These physisits that are filing lawsuits are simply angry that they are not part of the project themselves. It would be so much safer if they were part of the project! This all reeks of a not so funny version of Exit Mundi.

I say: 'let's worry less about some hypothetical chance of a black hole, and more about getting in a carcrash'.
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Re: The Hadron Collider

Postby waytanblee » Wed Sep 17, 2008 6:07 am

The hadron suicides would be an awesome name for a band. I wonder if there will be more. Poor silly girl /: so young.
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Re: The Hadron Collider

Postby Bread Butterbeard » Wed Sep 17, 2008 1:48 pm

Hmmm I havent really thought about this but really black holes? small ones? In all honesty can it even make one?
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Re: The Hadron Collider

Postby Dark Knight » Wed Sep 17, 2008 3:39 pm

Given what I have read I would say NO.
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Re: The Hadron Collider

Postby waytanblee » Thu Sep 18, 2008 3:09 am

There are black holes out there. They've gotta been caused by something. Maybe if they think it might it might.
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Re: The Hadron Collider

Postby nightlock » Thu Sep 18, 2008 2:42 pm

Scientists really don't know. Some of them say there is a possibility, some say there isn't. I have to wonder though, a black hole is mass so dense that it's own gravity pulls in light. Normally these are created when massive suns collapse unto themselves. Gravity is a result of mass, not of density. So I can see how an experiment like this is capable of producing extremely dense matter, but would it have enough mass to pull in light? And if not, can it be truly called a black hole? Or is it a black hole to be? Is it even the same material as what black holes are made off?

Still, any stable superdense matter would start to slowly gather up more atoms and thus grow until it's mass would be sufficient to pull in light. But if that's truly the case, why hasn't this happened with the superdense materials we already posses?
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Re: The Hadron Collider

Postby Dark Knight » Thu Sep 18, 2008 4:22 pm

Large hadron collider back after breakdown
8:12AM Friday Sep 19, 2008

GENEVA - The world's newest and largest atom smasher had to take a weeklong break after a spectacular start because of the failure of a massive transformer, the European Organisation for Nuclear Research said.

The faulty, 30-tonne transformer has been replaced and the ring in the 27km circular tunnel under the Swiss-French border has been cooled back down to near absolute zero, the most efficient operating temperature, said a statement by CERN, as the organisation is known.

The Large Hadron Collider was launched Sept. 10, when scientists circled a beam of protons in a clockwise direction at the speed of light. That was followed by a counterclockwise beam.

"Several hundred orbits" were made, said the statement.

On the evening of Sept. 11, scientists were able to control the counterclockwise beam with equipment that keeps the protons bunched tightly and ready for collisions before the transformer failed and the system was shut down, the statement said.

Now that the transformer has been replaced and the equipment rechilled, a similar attempt is expected shortly to tighten the clockwise beam, it said.

The machine is still on track to collide the beams travelling in opposite directions within coming weeks, CERN said.

The Large Hadron Collider is designed to collide protons in the beams so that they shatter and reveal more about the makeup of matter and the universe.

- AP

from http://www.nzherald.co.nz/technology/ne ... d=10533027

So that's what happens when you turn it on... :wink:
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Re: The Hadron Collider

Postby Silvanus » Thu Sep 18, 2008 9:53 pm

My personaly opinion is.. we're going to collide this stuff and the particles are going to turn into something lame like stuff we already know about and everyone's gonna be like, what a waste...
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