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Anakin who's fault??

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Anakin who's fault??

Postby Beltaer » Tue Feb 28, 2006 1:15 pm

Now then i was watching Star Wars earlier and i was thinking....who (if anyone) was responsible for Anakin's downfall.
was it...
1 Obi-Wan and his patronizing attitude to Anakin's training ie "My VERY YOUNG padawan," :smt075

2 the Senator/emperor and his manipulation of anakin's mind. :twisted:

3 Anakin himself for over-reacting and getting far to cocky. 8)

4 The Jedi order for suppressing his talents. :evil:

Any comments would be appreciative (or any more people or culprits).
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Postby ScottSF » Tue Feb 28, 2006 4:16 pm

I think the Jedi were Jerks in some respects.

1) Quaigon "We didn't come here to free slaves." Ok, at the moment they were in a desparate situation but the Jedi didn't come back to free slaves either. Maybe ending slavery in Hutt space isn't an easy task, and perhaps efforts were made but there was no mention of it. Ending slavery seems like something a Jedi would want to do, but perhaps there are so few Jedi that they only get involved in affairs where a certain number of billions of lives are at risk but if they can get involved in a trade dispute you think they might get involved in ending slavery.

2) This is a big one, Also you might think someone, even Amidala, might see to Anakins mom having a better life. After the events of episode 1, Padme could have gone back and bought Shmi from Watto. After all, shmi played a vital role in saving naboo.

3) How hard would it have been for Obiwan to see to checking out if Anakin's mom was ok. Even if the Jedi were way too busy to worry about one person, Obiwan could have used some of his contacts to send someone trustworthy and skilled to check on Shmi.

4) Anikin was more than Obi-wan could handle alone. I think the Jedi should have been open with Anakin about his power. "Yes, can be stronger in the force than any living Jedi but that power also makes more suseptable to the dark side and more dangerous in the hands of the sith.

Those are some ideas of how it may have turned out differently. I suspect the Emperor may have actually somehow made a deal with the Sand People to get Shmi, since he had is eye on Anakin from the start. I also think the Emperor is responsible for the visions of Padme dying and the more Anakin worried about them, the more power they had over him thus making the dreams self fulfilling. So the emperor was probably nudging him toward the darkside in lots of unseen ways.

So, in conclusion, it's Padme's fault :p
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Postby ScottSF » Tue Feb 28, 2006 4:19 pm

Oh, and of course Anakin made his own choices. One of the problems I have seen with younger people is the get stuck in this "right now" frame of mind. If he could disconnect from his visions and learn to step outside the moment perhaps he could find solutions based on reason and wisdom instead of passion.
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Postby aldan » Wed Mar 01, 2006 1:29 am

It always starts with the person directly involved. Anakin CHOSE to go to the Dark Side. Nobody forced him to. He chose the "easy way" to gain power.

I thought that Obiwan should never have been assigned Anakin as a padawan, not when he was so recently a padawan himself. That, however, wasn't really his fault, though he shouldn't have been trying to teach him 'on the side' as he had. That, choice was his, and it was a poor choice that was exacerbated by the Council's intransigence regarding teaching Anakin.

As far as the "right now" frame, he didn't really have the experience and the necessary time to contemplate those experiences to have developed the real wisdom or reason that would have been needed. Most kids think that adults live "in the past" and not in the present, so when they hear the wisdom, they think of it, usually, as more "old stories". Some were lucky enough to have experienced things and then have not only had the opportunity to but also have TAKEN the opportunity to really think about what had happened. Some don't develop that until they're old. I was lucky enough to have had it happen for me sooner in my personal life, or at least that's what I THINK happened!

The Order was simply stuck in a very conservative mode, and weren't really willing to accept change or willing to try to adapt to it.
"It is better to keep your mouth shut and to appear stupid than
to open it and remove all doubt."
---Mark Twain
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Postby MrB » Mon Mar 13, 2006 8:35 am

It's all Anakins

He's not the Messiah. He's a very naughty boy!

oops, wrong film !
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Postby Jack Sarratt » Fri Apr 14, 2006 12:07 pm

A little off-topic, but if you look at it a certain way, Star Wars should have a subtext of "The Tragedy of Anakin Skywalker". I mean, the first three movies (IV, V, VI) were about the new Skywalker, Luke, but in a way, they signified Anakin's redemption. The second set of movies told of his fall from the light.

Anyway...

I believe Anakin isn't totally at fault. In fact, he could be considered admirable even in his early darkness. He is loyal to a fault. It is only after he lets his rage take over that he becomes so suspicious of Padme and the other Jedi. He appears to be naturally insecure of his feelings.
People say to not judge a book by its cover, but first make sure you picked the right title.
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Postby Dragonfleet » Sat Apr 29, 2006 9:45 pm

ScottSF wrote:So, in conclusion, it's Padme's fault :p


Yeah and she coped it in the end..and survived by two children. :twisted:

Even the emperor coped it in the end when Anakin/Vader threw him in that hole - whatever it was. See, if I had an emperor in my story he wouldn't be so dumb, he'd at least have guards to protect him. :P
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Postby Magus » Sat Apr 29, 2006 9:57 pm

There's plenty of blame to go around. Everyone mentioned thus far is guilty. If I had to say that any one person is more guilty than another, I'd probably say it's Annakin's fault
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Postby Darth Bane » Sun Apr 30, 2006 12:32 am

I just wanna talk about an earlier comment, "Maybe the Jedi should've been open to Anakin about his powers."

This is actually good idea, I think, but it would've put Anakin at an even greater risk of turning to the dark side.

On the pro side, it would have made Anakin aware that he was very gifted and that his powers would reach a greater level than many others. It could have hardened his resolve about using his powers for good.

But on the con side, this could've fed his arrogance greater than ever before. If everyone in the Jedi Order (including the greatest of the Jedi Masters) would let him know that his powers could grow to an unprecedented, I think, that would just be fuel to thrown on his already boiling arrogance.

I mean, how would you feel if you openly had the favor and respect of the greatest Jedi Masters?

And on the other hand, I would bet that the Jedi Masters would've wanted Anakin's powers to grow. There hasn't been anyone gifted like Anakin at such a young age.

Wouldn't you want to see Anakin's abilities when they grew to their peak? If there was a peak?

What if Luke had to fight Darth Vader as 100% man and not in the breathing suit?
The difference between truth and fiction: fiction has to make sense. -Mark Twain
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Postby Qray » Sun May 07, 2006 12:20 am

Even though in later movies Obi Wan blames himself, saying he thought he could train a padawan as well as Yoda had trained him, I don't see Obi Wan making any mistakes in Anakin's training other than perhaps not putting the brat over his knee.

I think the Jedi Order itself has to bear some of the blame for the way they left Anakin ill prepared for dealing with the Dark Side. However, I don't think them keeping any information from Anakin contributed to his turning to the Dark Side.

Palpatine as the one that manipulated Anakin to the Dark Side bears a good deal of the blame. If it hadn't been for Palpatine, it's highly unlikely that Anakin would've turned to the Dark Side, if at all.

Regardless of whatever outside forces, IMO Anakin has to bear the brunt of the responsability for turning to the Dark Side. He's the one that made the decision. He knew right from wrong even if he were being manipulated by Palpatine. Yes, it could be looked at as noble. He wanted to save the one he loved. That's why he turned. And yet the way he cooly butchered children at the Jedi Academy makes me not give a fig. I can't see any nobility in wanting to save Padme at any cost. To me that's not nobility, that's desperation.

As an aside, I think that Anakin DID fullfill the prophecy of bringing balance to the force. When you look back to the time of Exar Kun and the like, there were many on the Light Side AND the Dark Side. In the time of Anakin, there's an over abundance of Light Siders and very few Dark Siders. After Palpatine and Vader's "purge" of the Jedi ranks, the number of Light Siders and Dark Siders became more equal. More balanced.
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Postby Valen » Mon May 15, 2006 8:34 am

99.9% of the blame has to be set on pubberty! (yes, I spelled it that way on purpose) Ya see it hit poor Anakin hard! All then hormones pulling him this way and that... the guy never had a chance! The other .1% going on Palpatine.

If you look at young Anakin, the kindness and caring that was present... add to that the influence of Qui-Gon, however short the exposure was, and Obi-wan one can't but believe that the teen years were not good for Anni. Besides.. Anakin's ego was in full blossom even before his mother was taken by the sandpeople. He resented not being admired and respected as much as he felt he deserved... there's the tell-all. The amount of admiration and respect he felt he deserved... yet had not yet earned.
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Postby Mr_D » Wed Jun 14, 2006 8:04 am

He just did what needed to be done. *Kills some Jedi* :twisted:
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