Bush Banger!!

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Anthentar
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Post by Anthentar »

I actually don't really understand fully where the low opinion of Canadians among Americans actually comes from. The recent rise in this can be explained by our increasingly volitile (in the Canadian sense) cultural revolution. But the low opinion was there long before this period in time. I mean, when the war of 1812 was about to begin, Thomas Jefferson was quoted as saying that there had never before been a victory more assured.

Why is it that America has such a low opinion of its most important economic and military ally?
"He who fights with monsters should be careful lest he thereby become one. And if you gaze long into an abyss, the abyss will also gaze into you." - Beyond Good and Evil, aphorism 146

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Post by Magus »

If I may quote Stephen Decatur's famous toast:
"Our country! In her intercourse with foreign nations, may she always be in the right; but our country, right or wrong."

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Post by Qray »

Magus wrote:
SirJill wrote: But then again, starting a war... did not help the bust cycle.
It did when Roosevelt did it.
When did Roosevelt start a war?
Magus wrote:My opinion here: Jackson was certainly a skilled and tactful president who reshaped the politics of the nation, was far from a nice man. He was a brutal racist and an iron-fisted figure. There's a reason he was named "Old Hickory".
In the War of 1812, Jackson had been ordered to march his Tennessee troops to Natchez, Mississippi. When he got there he was told to disband his men because they were unneeded. General Jackson refused and marched them back to Tennessee. Because of his strict discipline on that march his men began to say he was as tough as hickory. That's the reason his nickname was "Old Hickory."

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Post by SirJill »

Here's my theory.

Canadians in the US, are assumed to be entirely peaceful. They are...um, the slang term involving cats. From my discussions with others, this is essentially how US teenagers (at least the ones in my state) see Canadians. I think it's because of the US view that Canadians don't have to go to war to prove they have testosterone running through their veins. Yes, I mostly blame men for this one.

But the war of 1812 was British and Indian vs US Colonists...right? or is that the French and Indian War?
"I want to sit down, every day at my piano and write a song that people will listen to and remember. And do the same thing--for the rest of my life."

--Johnny Can't Decide, Tick, tick...Boom! by Jonathan Larson

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Post by Magus »

Qray, I realize that. I tried to imply that with my post, but I don't think I did that very well in hindsight. But I was trying to get at that he was so unyielding in what he did and how he acted, which can definitely be a negative quality as much a a positive one, given a certain situation.
Yes, I mostly blame men for this one.
Or maybe it's that they don't have so much estrogen in their system that they don't have to make mountains out of molehills in the politic field.

:wink:

I can safely say that where I live at least your description of American attitudes towards Canadians is untrue. They aren't really cast into the limelight here, but when they are it's a mostly positive one. The only time I've heard people talk negatively about our friendly neighbors to the North are a handful of people, and by this I mean two idiots in the hall, one time, and even then it wasn't so bad as it seems to be where you are.

Speaking of which, what state do you live in? I'm just curious, as maybe it's more a sectional difference then a general mindset?

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Post by Qray »

Magus, you need to do it like this...
Why is it that America has such a low opinion of its most important economic and military ally?
I don't know what your talking about. Americans love Great Britian.

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Post by Magus »

:rofl:

True...
I yet have much to learn from you.
And though you type just a tad,
A more amusing post I rarely have seen had.

Somehow my making a post in all rhyming couplets didn't quite work.
But annoying you all is a mighty fine perk.

Lord help me, I'm acting stupid!

:roll:

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Post by Neurolanis »

I wasn't thinking of Mulroney, actually, but he's a perfect example! Politics is all about behind-the-scenes games, making it seem you're in everyone's best interests, and then you can pay off your allies and help out your friends, screw your enemies and live in glory. It's all BS. A good politician has to be passionate enough not to forget his original good intentions, rich enough so he can't be bought off, and cunning enough to build connections with charm instead of underhanded deals. He must of course bathe with the pigs, but he doesn't have to get too dirty. Lol. Anyway, on top of these three things he must be intelligent. Politicians are all clever and sharp, but intelligence..?

If I'm not mistaken women were responsible for chivalry. I heard an historian say that. It was a women's movement where women refused to be with men who weren't gentle-like. And this created 'ladies and gentlemen', modern ethics and so forth. People say it was a Christian movement and maybe it was, but if my source is correct then it was a movement created by and enforced by women.

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Post by Magus »

Nuerolanis, I'm sorry if you take offense to this, but I think that you are more than a little off on what makes a god politician. (Just for clarification, this is not on the basis of political belief on which I attack. I will not say a Conservative Senator isn't a good politician because their too conservative or a liberal one because they're too liberal.)

By your definition, it seems to me, that a good politician is only such if he's rich and comes from a poor/rocky background. He must forget those countries who assisted him in his endeavors as well as those who have attacked him. And from this he would have to have no sense of loyalty except to himself, which he obviously cannot have since he has to represent the people.

Look at Abraham Lincoln, undoubtedly one of the greatest Presidents America has ever had. He was born in a one-room log cabin and never became any richer. He lost senate elections and other political offices and almost every endeavor he struck out for except the presidency. He was far from rich in every point of his life. So he fails in the criteria you set forth for being "rich enough so he can't be bought off".

And this is what I most ardently disagree with you about. A man does not have to be rich to serve his country well in politics. In fact it usually turns out better the other way. Because when a person has a little of something they'll more likely than not want more, as is the case with wealth. I'm not saying, understand me, that the wealthy shouldn't enter into political office or anything to the like. I'm only saying that to say that they should be the only ones to do so would be going back to the elitist attitude of the Federalists and create an oligarchy of the wealthy which, by definition, would shatter your belief that one must "bathe with the pigs" to be a good politician. Because, by definition, one in such a position not only wouldn't do so but go to great lengths not to do so.

And who exactly is Mulroney anyway?

Qray, no, he didn't start a war. But he did join a war. And in doing so he did bring America out of The Depression.

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Post by Anthentar »

Being bought off has nothing to do with how much money you have. It has to do with your morals. Bill Gates could be bought off if he had low morals. Does he need the money... no. Does he want it... possibly. Magus presents the very good example of Abraham Lincoln... a man with little money, but high moral standards and big ideas.

Also, politics is not all back door dealing... especially in a modern democracy. The people demand that parties be at least partly transparent in their dealings. On top of that, as Magus brushed on, loyalty is huge in politics. The elected person owes a debt of gratitude to those who helped he or she get into office. These include the people of their riding or state, their campaign contributors, foreign diplomats and governments who may have lent their support (not money obviously, but it might be support). Politics can be extremely confusing and very underhanded at times, but it's really not as bad as it looks. Btw, your definition of a good politician is pretty much what defined the aristocracy of yesteryear.

SirJill, I did suspect as much. I can't ever expect ordinary American teenagers to understand Canadian Military history... I mean, I don't know very many Canadian teens who understand American Military history. Believe me, though, we have a long proud history of warfare and peacekeeping. We are not the pushovers so many seem to think we are and you northern border is good, capable hands (the same way that we feel about our southern border)

And finally Qray. Very funny, I like that :lol: . But seriously, putting aside the fact that we didn't go with you into Iraq, we are your most important military and economic ally. Most of the time this fact is displayed in an acceptable manner by the US administration when they don't object to pretty much anything we do. Most of it is a none issue... but public opinion does not seem to take this into account, and certain objections and interventions (our submarines for instance) are not the way you treat an important friend and ally.

What is it about Canada that America doesn't like?
"He who fights with monsters should be careful lest he thereby become one. And if you gaze long into an abyss, the abyss will also gaze into you." - Beyond Good and Evil, aphorism 146

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Post by Neurolanis »

I meant usually, not always so. Anything is possible if you have enough passion, of course. And by "bathing with the pigs" I meant that if you wish to get into a corrupt system, well, you're getting into a corrupt system. You can avoid the dirt ... possibly. (If I thought I could I'd want to get into politics myself, but all I see looking in is BS.)
Wikipedia:

The Right Honourable Martin Brian Mulroney, PC , CC , GOQ , LL.D (born March 20, 1939), was the eighteenth Prime Minister of Canada from September 17, 1984, to June 25, 1993.

Born in Baie-Comeau, Quebec, Brian Mulroney became Prime Minister after his Progressive Conservative Party won the most parliamentary seats in Canadian history. At the time, Mulroney was unique in Canadian politics in that he had never been a career politician. A longtime businessman, he had become leader of the Progressive Conservative Party without any political experience, running as an outsider. His legacy is a mixed and complicated one, but it is almost undeniable that his period was one of drastic change.
He was the worst thing to ever happen to Canada! He sold us out and iniated Free Trade.

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Anthentar
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Post by Anthentar »

Like I said about the free trade agreement, Neuro. It's a pain in everyone's side, but for years it avoided problems such as trade wars between Canada, the United States and Mexico
"He who fights with monsters should be careful lest he thereby become one. And if you gaze long into an abyss, the abyss will also gaze into you." - Beyond Good and Evil, aphorism 146

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