Beliefs, is there a right or wrong way?

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Ariel
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Post by Ariel »

The tears of the children, the elderly, and those in between, from pain and anguish suffered phsically and emotionally haunts me sometimes. It is my love and compassion for my fellow man spilling forth and seeking answers from wherever I may find them. I cannot pretend to know the mind of God nor can any other human being.

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Llew
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Post by Llew »

Say I could see into the future and knew when everyone was going to die. I write down all these names and dates in a book and keep it in my office. Now how would my knowing this alter anyone's life?

I fail to see how God's knowledge of our ulitmate fate hinders or limits anyone. We determine our ultimate fate, not Him. He just already knows what it's going be.
He has got a way with words, what?
There are those like MrB who blame God for the state of the planet.

There are those like myself who blame the people.

I think both views have partial validity, but the actual truth lies somewhere in-between.

The one thing that makes me lean more towards blaming people is the fact that those that blame God for not intervening in our affairs are usually the first to complain about when He does by saying He's too controlling and is interfering with our free will.
Very true. Paradoxical aren't they?
It is difficult to understand a God like the one portrayed in the bible. I couldn't worship that kind of God either....There must be a God, a creator or higher being or whatever, but I would hate to think it is the God of the bible.
If you (I'm not saying you do) blame the state of things on the God of the bible, then you will also have to blame it on the "Other" God--the one thats 'More loving and compassionate'....Because of the state of the world. He must not be any better then the God portrayed in to Bible.
“I Speak Spanish to God, Italian to Women, French to Men, and German to My Horse” - Charles V, King of Spain and Holy Roman Emperor, 1500–58

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Ariel
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Post by Ariel »

True. Hmmmm....I guess I want very much to believe in something better. I want to know that I am just not seeing something, that there is an answer somewhere that makes sense.

I see the vast universe, the beauty of nature and the profoundness of love and think to myself there is a great and wondrous power behind it all. Then I equally see the chaos, pain and suffering of mankind. Like there are two opposing forces in life. :? I also find it strange that so many die never having the comfort of knowing, only wondering.

I remember a letter I recieved from a pen-pal many years ago and towards the end of his life, he was very confused about if there was a God or not. I remember taking my time and thinking things over very carefully. I was determined to inspire him to give him hope and hopefully something to hold on to and feel at peace with. It was a very beautiful letter and I couldn't wait to mail it.

I did indeed mail it and waited patiently for the reply, one that never came. After some weeks I recieved a letter from his sister telling me he passed on. :cry:

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Post by Llew »

I'm...Sorry to hear that. I hate to say hope, but we can hope that God took him home to his rest.


I can't help but know what you mean, I just have faith that God does all to the Good like he promised us he would. It is thin comfort at times, but what else can we do?
“I Speak Spanish to God, Italian to Women, French to Men, and German to My Horse” - Charles V, King of Spain and Holy Roman Emperor, 1500–58

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Post by Ariel »

Embrace faith and hope. I suppose that is what we can do.

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Post by Llew »

I sometime find I just have to do this :wallbash: and just repeat to my self: I-believe I-believe I-believe... :)
“I Speak Spanish to God, Italian to Women, French to Men, and German to My Horse” - Charles V, King of Spain and Holy Roman Emperor, 1500–58

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Post by Ariel »

:lol:

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Post by MrB »

Qray wrote: There are those like MrB who blame God for the state of the planet.

There are those like myself who blame the people.

I think both views have partial validity, but the actual truth lies somewhere in-between.

The one thing that makes me lean more towards blaming people is the fact that those that blame God for not intervening in our affairs are usually the first to complain about when He does by saying He'ss too controlling and is interfering with our free will.

You can't have it both ways.
Now, just wait a moment here, I have not blamed God for anything, if you have taken my comments that way, then you have misread my post. Let me try and put it another way...

If you have a small child, and he/she poohs on the carpet, what would you do ?

Would you do nothing, risking the chance that the child is more than likely going to do it again, or would you explain why poohing on the carpet is wrong ?

If you allow the child to continuously defacate an the floor, eventually there will come a point where enough is enough, and something must be done about it.

This was the point I was trying to make, and any suggestions that I might be angry or trying to start a fight are completely without merit. As everyone here I'm entitled to an opinion, if this is not the case, and opinions are only welcome provided they fit in with others, then I have been mislead about the nature of Speculative Vision, and I would be very disappointed.

With regard to Llew, if you feel I was attempting a personal attack, then I apologise most profusely as that was not my intent, however I will continue to post my views and opinions until such time as they become unwelcome, if that time has come then please say now, and I will take no further part with what I had come to see as a very friendly community.

And no I dn't know how to spell pooh...poo... *beep* !
Last edited by MrB on Mon Feb 05, 2007 1:51 am, edited 2 times in total.
You can't dangle the bogus carrot of possible reconciliation in front of my face whilst riding some other donkey.

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Post by MrB »

In addition, let me just explain something else... wait, can someone explain this to me, because being the Layman that I am, I have a bit of a problem with it...

God created everything right ? so he created all the little fishes in the sea, the dogs, the limestones, the grass, the uraniam, the chickens, the clouds, water, the sun, Cancer, the fruit bats, Volcanoes, the crocodiles, the cactuseseses (is it Cactii ? I can never remember), the dust mites, the fleas, Land masses that shift and cause earthquakes...

hmmm, I'm a bit confused here, God created the Earth... and he created all the land masses, and the plates of the planet on which many of these land masses sit... and sometimes they shift, and cause earthquakes and people die ?!?!?!

Why would he do that ? is he incompetent ? Was Planet Earth his first attempt ? was he late for World Creation 101 ?

lets skip that one for now, lets move on to something else, Diseases for example. Cancer, Malaria, HIV/AIDs etc etc, Why did he create those ?

If it's as a way of culling the population, surely the Earthquakes are better suited, as you could probably cull more of the population with one almighty Earthquake, than creating a bunch of diseases. The deaths would probably be a lot quicker, I mean you can live for years with HIV/AIDS.

Lets skip that one as well.

Fleas... Fleas, what is the point of Fleas ? why would anyone create anything thats single purpose is to make dogs scratch ? What use are fleas, I suppose if they were comparable in size to humans then they could jump over buildings... Nope still can't think of a useful application !

Lets go back to where it all started, Adam and Eve, and that big 'ole apple tree. God created this tree with these apples or bananas or pink Chicken fruit or whatever they were. then he turns to Adam and says...

"Adam, mate, you can do what you like in here, but do me a favour, don't touch that tree over there, cheers !"

What does Adam do...? He goes straight over and has a bite of the biggest fattest Pink Chicken fruit he can get his grubby little mits on...

Wait a minute... God created man... gives him a really great place to live... Man is stupid...

aah-ha I'm beginning to see a pattern here. It's all my fault.

Clearly I'm an idiot ! :roll:

Now I'm blaming God !
You can't dangle the bogus carrot of possible reconciliation in front of my face whilst riding some other donkey.

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Post by Qray »

MrB wrote:lets skip that one for now,
Population control. Very possibly the same reason that God doesn't cure all diseases and help everyone he's asked to. There's not enough food on the planet. So they'd die of starvation instead.
MrB wrote:Lets skip that one as well.
Population control. Very possibly the same reason that God doesn't cure all diseases and help everyone he's asked to. There's not enough food on the planet. So they'd die of starvation instead.
MrB wrote:"Adam, mate, you can do what you like in here, but do me a favour, don't touch that tree over there, cheers !"
As you said, he could do anything. So if you can do anything, how can you have free will? Introduce something that shouldn't be done to establish a true choice. The tree with the fruit you speak of could've been to introduce free will.
MrB wrote:aah-ha I'm beginning to see a pattern here. It's all my fault.

Clearly I'm an idiot ! :roll:
If you believe in original sin, then you may even believe in such racial traits as idiocy being passed down.

I think you may be very angry, but your not an idiot.
I'm going to die the way I've lived...poor, screaming, and naked.

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Post by MrB »

Ok, I'm confused even more now, what you are saying, is in essence the same thing I'm saying, that we are all Lab rats, and our universe is a very big maze ?

As regards Adam and the tree that provides free will, if he didn't have free will before he ate the fruit, why would he disobey God in the first place ?

As for being angry, certainly not, I was however annoyed by your vicious little diatribe, concerning "those" like myself. I had not made any remarks about anyone else, so I fail to see why you felt it necessary to make them about me, but if you apologise, then I'm sure we can forget about it and move on.
You can't dangle the bogus carrot of possible reconciliation in front of my face whilst riding some other donkey.

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Post by Llew »

I was however annoyed by your vicious little diatribe, concerning "those" like myself. I had not made any remarks about anyone else, so I fail to see why you felt it necessary to make them about me, but if you apologise, then I'm sure we can forget about it and move on.

Now boys! we are all friends here like someone recently pointed out, so lets not get into these false accusations and all that junk.

MrB, the only reason Q said "'those" like yourself' was simply because there are lots of people that feel the way you do. As to it being directed at you, quite the contrary, it was being directed at all the others with your mindset.

And I would highly suggest that you go and talk face-to-face with a paster who can clearly explain things to you. It will really cut down on the confusion and there will be no misunderstandings or hard feelings here.
“I Speak Spanish to God, Italian to Women, French to Men, and German to My Horse” - Charles V, King of Spain and Holy Roman Emperor, 1500–58

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