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aldan
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Post by aldan »

*aldan sighs and then crumples into ashes and dust, blowing away in the wind*
"It is better to keep your mouth shut and to appear stupid than
to open it and remove all doubt."
---Mark Twain

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Post by Neurolanis »

I agree with your points, Aldan. I try to do my best as well.

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Post by LightBrigade »

The Anchoret comes to stand by Neurolanis, a man he regards as an extraordinary person, an admirable writer and a good fighter in life.


He nods.


Once.

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Post by LightBrigade »

SPIRIT A
All speakers having made their point, let’s for a moment forget the arguments at hand and…

SPIRIT B
Yet unsolved arguments that helps us and arguments that disturb us, and… , alright, go on SPIRIT A.

SPIRIT A [nods to the interruption over a sharp eye]
And listen to something else, carefully spelled and syntaxed…

SPIRIT C
Why change the subject?

SPIRIT A
… and then ponder on what we are talking about. Because thinking is not easy. What we are to experience needs an effort to follow, and it does so by its nature.

SPIRIT C
If it were given in confusing grammar, we couldn’t follow!

SPIRIT B
Worse! We’d misunderstand, be offended, get upset, separate instead of unite.

[“unite” echoes. (x 3)]

SPIRIT A
[echo dying out] We’ll almost take part in the most famous drinking party in literature, see beautiful things, like Poverty sleep with Wealth of mere need, and a Wonder of all time resulting…

[music sounds a soft tune in the background]

ALL SPIRITS [facing the audience]
Plato’s Symposium – extract adapted.

[Spirits exeunt, music fades]
Last edited by LightBrigade on Mon Jul 16, 2007 8:09 am, edited 5 times in total.

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Post by LightBrigade »

ERYXIMACHUS
Well, if love isn’t good or beautiful, then what on good earth is it?

[The doorbell rings.]
SOCRATES
Good question, and the answer is at the door. Gentlemen, we have a guest. Her name is Diotima. She’s a mystery woman, but famous in her own way. She once put off the plague for ten years by telling us what sacrifices to make.

[Diotima enters].
SOCRATES
Ah, Diotima, here you are at last. Gentlemen, this is the woman who taught me everything I know about love. As I think I told you, it’s the only subject . . .

AGATHON
Which you understand. Yes, you did tell us, Socrates! The only one! Madam, it’s an honour to meet someone who could teach him anything. We thought he knew it all. Champagne, Diotima?

DIOTIMA
Yes, please.

ERYXIMACHUS
Madam, we’ve come to an intricate place in our dialogue this evening. Your student has just demonstrated that our host here is completely without an inkling when it comes to understanding love, and it seems we’re all pretty much in the dark as far as that is concerned.

AGATHON
For instance, we’ve all been praising love as beautiful and good, and it turns out it’s neither one!

PHAEDRUS
And this is all your doing, obviously. So, Diotima, is it true that love is actually ugly and bad? Is this what women have to tell us? No wonder we seek out our own kind!

DIOTIMA
Now boys! Let’s not be hasty. Do you think just because something isn’t beautiful, it must necessarily be ugly?

AGATHON
Well, more or less.

DIOTIMA
And you’d also probably say that if something isn’t wise, it must be ignorant. Don’t you know there’s something in between?

ARISTOPHANES
We don’t mess with Mr. In-between.

DIOTIMA
But that’s who love is! Mr. In-between!

ERYXIMACHUS
Now wait just a minute here. Everyone knows Love is a great god.

DIOTIMA
How can he be when he lacks and seeks what the gods possess: goodness and beauty? No, gentlemen, he’s not a god. And he’s not a mortal.

ERYXIMACHUS
What a riddle!

PHAEDRUS
Well then, Diotima, what is he?

DIOTIMA
He’s a spirit.

PAUSANIAS
And what do spirits do, haunt houses?

DIOTIMA
Silly man, spirits are the messengers between gods and men. They take our prayers up to the gods and bring divine gifts back down to us. Gods don’t mix directly with humans. They touch us through spirits, and one of these spirits is love.

PHAEDRUS
Who are his parents? I’ve never heard of them.

DIOTIMA
I’ve already told Socrates that story. But you can hear it too if you’d like. We could do a little show and tell.

PHAEDRUS
Yes, please! I love Charades!

DIOTIMA
Here we go, then. Long ago, the day Aphrodite was born, the gods celebrated with a big party on Mount Olympus - ambrosia, nymphs, all the trimmings. Everyone who was anyone was there, all the immortals! Poros was there. Have you heard of him?

EVERYONE
No.

DIOTIMA
A wild and crazy fellow, a minor deity. [Indicating Aristophanes] You look like him. Stand up and be Poros. In English, we’d call him Contrivance or Resourcefulness.

ARISTOPHANES
Must've been a comedian.

DIOTIMA
Now be resourceful, Poros, and find yourself a drink. After dinner, Penia, the beggar woman came by. [Indicating Phaedrus] You be Penia, darling, just kneel there. And try and look desperate, will you? [He does] By this time, Poros was drunk on nectar . . .

PAUSANIAS
Nectar?

SOCRATES
Wine hadn’t been invented yet.

DIOTIMA
And he wandered out into Zeus’ garden and passed out.

ARISTOPHANES
I can do that. [He falls to the floor on his back, out into the garden.]

DIOTIMA
Good! Penia saw him, and she saw her opportunity. She slept with him out in the garden. She thought Poros would give her the resources she needed so much. Go ahead, Penia! Show us the birth of love!

[Phaedrus/Penia goes on Aristophanes and after a frenzied and mimed performance she falls off and lands on her back, passed out.]

DIOTIMA
And so love was born - you darling [indicating Agathon] - you be love. There he is! Conceived on Aphrodite’s birthday, this child was born to serve her, and to love beauty. Love takes after both his parents. Like his mother, he’s always poor, and far from being delicate and tender, he is tough and weathered and shoeless and homeless. He sleeps in fields and under bridges, and is so, so needy all the time [Agathon walks around like his mother]. But like his dad, he is a cunning schemer, always on the prowl after the beautiful and the good. He’s brave, impetuous, intense, an awesome hunter, a magician, a genius of enchantment.

SOCRATES
In any event, Love is neither mortal nor immortal.

DIOTIMA
Whatever he gets, he loses; yet he is never without resources. He is neither wise nor ignorant. The ignorant don’t want to be wise, and the wise already are wise. Love is Mr. In-between.

SOCRATES
Not wise but wanting wisdom; not beautiful, but wanting to possess beauty. Love never really arrives, but he’s always on the way. How am I doing, Diotima?

DIOTIMA
Very well, Socrates. You see the reason why you all thought love was beautiful is because you identified it with what is loved - and that really is beautiful and delicate and perfect. But when you actually feel love, that’s a different thing, as you probably know.

PAUSANIAS
I’ll say! So what’s the point of all this?

DIOTIMA
To possess the beautiful.

PAUSANIAS
Yes, but then what?

DIOTIMA
Let’s substitute “good” for “beautiful.” Then what would you say, Socrates?

SOCRATES
That’s easy. Someone who possesses the good will be happy.

ARISTOPHANES
Here we go again.

DIOTIMA
But that’s the point, isn’t it? Happiness. It’s what we all want.

PHAEDRUS
Then why do we only call some people lovers and others not?

DIOTIMA
Because the word now only means one kind of love, what we call romance or passion. For other kinds of love we use other names. Tell them, Socrates.

SOCRATES
I think she’s saying that every desire for good and happiness should be called love. Now, since that’s what all of us desire, we are all naturally lovers. But Diotima, haven’t you heard that lovers aren’t after happiness but the other halves of themselves?

DIOTIMA
Yes I’ve heard that story. But in my opinion love isn’t love of your other half unless that half is all good. The whole idea of love looking for its other half is a narcissist’s wet dream - very dangerous!

ARISTOPHANES
Excuse me, madam . . .

SOCRATES
Don’t interrupt the lady, Aristophanes. It’s very rude. As you were saying, Diotima...

DIOTIMA
I was just going to say that love is not only the desire to possess the good, but to possess it in perpetuity. Forever. That’s what love is. So now, everybody after me: Love is wanting to possess the good forever. Come on, then!

EVERYONE
“Love is wanting to possess the good forever.”

[Repeated three times]
DIOTIMA
Very good. Now, just how can we possess the good forever?

PAUSANIAS
Beats the spell out of me.

DIOTIMA
I’ll tell you then. By giving birth to beauty.

ERYXIMACHUS
Now what does she mean by that?

PHAEDRUS
Oh, please, tell us how, Diotima!

ARISTOPHANES
Teacher’s little pet, you!

DIOTIMA
All women know that when we come to a certain age we want to give birth, and that when men and women come together to make babies they are touched with immortality. Why is it that everything in nature provides for its young and will do anything to insure their children’s survival? It’s because our children are the only way we can secure our own immortality.

PHAEDRUS
Oh, oh, oh dear!

PAUSANIAS
A real mother of an argument!

ERYXIMACHUS
I feel completely left out.

AGATHON
So all of us who aren’t parents are just dead ends?

DIOTIMA
Now boys, relax! You’re pregnant too.

MEN
We are?

DIOTIMA
Of course you are! You can be pregnant in your soul as well as in your body.

AGATHON AND OTHERS
Aha!

DIOTIMA
And what do those who are pregnant in soul produce?

PHAEDRUS
Aliens?

[Everyone looks at him.]

SOCRATES
Tell them, Diotima.

DIOTIMA
They give birth to wisdom and beauty of course, and everything poets and artists create. Don’t we all envy Homer? His children won immortality for their father. Or Solon, who gave us the laws that still govern our city. And all of you here tonight, so full of desire, have been pregnant with love, and the beautiful arias you have sung are your spiritual children. Who knows? They may make you immortal too.

PHAEDRUS
Ooh! That’s to die for!

PAUSANIAS
Heavenly!

ERYXIMACHUS
Restored to harmony!

ARISTOPHANES
Whole again!

AGATHON
Beautiful! Absolutely beautiful!

DIOTIMA
Yes it is, isn’t it? But so far I have spoken only of love’s lesser mysteries. I will try to give you some idea of the greater mysteries now, if you’d like.

EVERYONE
Yes, please [etc.]

DIOTIMA
Listen carefully, then, and try to follow me up the ladder of the beautiful--

...

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Post by Boikat »

That's all fine and dandy, however, again, my point is that correcting posters in public, on their grammar/spelling/punctuation, is turning at least one poster off from posting here, and probably others.

Is that what anybody wants?
"I reject your reality, and substitute my own!" Adam Savage, Mythbusters

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Post by LightBrigade »

Boikat wrote:...correcting posters in public, on their grammar/spelling/punctuation, is turning at least one poster off from posting here, and probably others.
Of course you have a valid point indeed, good Boikat! Yet, what may put such posters off could be whatever idea they have built about themselves that they have necessarily got to be absolutely infallible in any case at any time! But we all make mistakes, all the time, do we not? Here it compares with our need to communicate well and freely.

And I imagine such remarks are not to be in deleterious! They are supposed to be playful teasing between friends after all.

So the golden measure may not be prohibiting but self-restraint and approach in good will.

In parallel, if we accept such an attitude exists among us as friends, we need not ask anyone if he is the answer. It sounds oouchy-oouchy! :-) (For the speaker more really IMhumbleO.)

As for SV, for traffic reasons it may well become a playground for entries where we freely write as we like.
-------------
Selfishness is not living as one wishes to live, it is asking others to live as one wishes to live. - Oscar Wilde -
Last edited by LightBrigade on Mon Jul 16, 2007 9:34 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Boikat »

Okay..
LightBrigade wrote:
Boikat wrote:...correcting posters in public, on their grammar/spelling/punctuation, is turning at least one poster off from posting here, and probably others.
Like any spoilt ....
The word is "spoiled". I can play the game, and I hope you don't mind being corrected in this manner.
LightBrigade wrote:...baby who...
1) I trust you are not calling me a "spoiled baby". Besides, I posted my original comment because someone expressed dismay at the increasing frequency of "grammar police" posts and that was turning that poster off from posting.

2) There probably should have been a comma between "baby and "who". But that may be a matter of style.
LightBrigade wrote:....wants to have it its own way, following no rule,
Who said anything about "following no rules"? All I'm asking for is a little courtesy.
LightBrigade wrote:... what may put such posters off is whatever high idea they have built about themselves.
Are you saying that those who are put off by public correction are being arrogant, even if they are not the one being corrected?
LightBrigade wrote:They need to be infallible!
If "infallibility" is a requirement for posting here, there would be nobody posting here at all, since *nobody* is infallible. Not even you. "Spoilt"! Sheesh!
LightBrigade wrote:..But we all make mistakes, all the time, do we not?
Good point. So why rub mistakes in peoples nose in public?
LightBrigade wrote: All adults know that, good Boikat, dandy or not. Here it compares with our need to communicate well and freely.
And how does public correction of grammar (not context) driving posters away aid in communicating well and freely? If a poster leaves, you've pretty much done away with communicating with that person permanently.

Just to clarify: Asking for clarification of *context* is not what I'm talking about.
LightBrigade wrote:As for SV, for traffic reasons it may well become a playground for the kind.
SV *IS* a playground for those who do want to write and learn. But there's a right way and a wrong way of "teaching".
Posting the corrections I'm talking about in public is the wrong way.

Besides, on almost every other board and news group, such corrections were (and are) frowned upon. Actually, it's generally considered a violation of "Netiquette" (Net etiquette). On one news group I post on the reaction to a correction of spelling (Usually referred to as a "spelling flame") is, "If correcting my spelling is all you have, you have nothing".
LightBrigade wrote:Selfishness is not living as one wishes to live, it is asking others to live as one wishes to live. - Oscar Wilde -
So, by asking for a little courtesy and respect for other peoples dignity, I'm being selfish? Wilde may have been a great writer, but it sounds like he must have been an irritating SOB to hang around with.

(edited; left out a "/")
"I reject your reality, and substitute my own!" Adam Savage, Mythbusters

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Post by LightBrigade »

Excellent! Excellent! :-)

I have deleted all the spoilt reference. My mistake! (Psst, please pretend we do not do it on purpose to show our arguments *smile*). Please, accept sincere apologies for any hurt feelings (this is the first example of what people do when a misunderstanding.) I definitely did not mean to. (It puts emphasis. Useful.)

Re : spoil - spoilt/spoilled-spoilt/spoilled. In American English we say 'spoiled' instead of 'spoilled' we use in British English. 'Spoilt' is the irregular form appearing as newer than the ~ed suffix type. As in 'burned' and burnt' or as in 'learned' and 'learnt', where we adopt the newer form 'learnt' while we can not use it in all cases but we use 'learned' necessarily as an epithet, my learned friend, Boikat. (This is another tool, so next time we are certain, we check our records.)

Courtesy, I am all for it. Courtesy, not hypocrisy. Alright?

I even scold a learned mod when he is bitter and a little unfair in our company!

(cont.- class begins)
Last edited by LightBrigade on Mon Jul 16, 2007 4:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Qray »

I agree with Boikat on this. SV is the only Site I've ever been to where correcting someone else's spelling or sentence structure is not frowned upon, looked at as the epitome of a novie, or considered an extremely bad form of netiquette.

The reason for this has always been, as Boikat pointed out, that form of linguistical anal-retentiveness turns off new and existing members of a community. Which in itself is counter-productive to the purpose of a BBS (unless that BBS's theme is spell checking.)

Exception has always been made for you Aldan. Otherwise your head might explode. :mrgreen:

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Post by LightBrigade »

Qray wrote:... that form of linguistical anal-retentiveness
Anal! What language! Anal-retentiveness! What characterisation!

From one who engaged in conversation with another Site member to be convinced _to urge the whole SV to down arms_, gullibly accepting this other Site member's _false_ arguments and wrong information! That was bad service to SV, Qray.

From one who attacking a member, to cover the barbarity, protested, hearyee, hearyee for that member not taking insult lightly! What a poor trick for hiding!

After another mod dares utter "is that you the answer, Aldan?", a mod practicing irony if not sarcasm at the expense of a simple status member! And much unfairly so! What a fine example set for the rest by a learned young man! So, is that you, Magus, the answer to what you posted?

Is that you the answer, so remarkably learned leader? (It does sound too spiteful, doesn't it? It is not for it is an example, like a mirror. My writer feels only good for Magus, as any parent learns to be.)

And the other watching mods, instead of rectifying all that, throw oil into the fire of insult and contempt and arrogance displayed by peers, both by discreetly being absent when simple members are battered or even posting to the wrongdoer moderator's support when they become disturbing and insulting themselves. Or by resignation : _rectify_ is the answer, and self-sacrifice, not let the anomaly continue after one's absence. THAT is responsibility.

Next, the administrator, but he is my last hope, so it won't serve me to expose him - j/k really. Scared? OK, next time don't pretend you did not see your child in the Bar, Zeus, father of mods and men ... sorry, gods and men. *s*

Good Boikat, if you are able to follow what is happening in SV, THAT is what has driven and drives members away. Not your topic here only. And we know it.

Well, ladies and gentlemen, an apology is hardly enough. The vulgar and the quick with irony, hold your horses of position for it is a service post, not a podium for display of your talents, whatever they are. Silence in shame is a useful respite because a few days ago, another incident of heated conversation and direct insult, drove another member away. He was wronged, while being in fever to be of use, in fever to offer. You never saw it or you never accepted it when you felt he was insulting you. I saw no apology by the mod. Instead, I further saw harsher speech against another targetted member. A pity really!

The Master wisely closed that thread to prevent further ill, the member left, I nearly left myself saddened at the brutality, two more nearly left for the same reason, but you realised nothing! Not good for SV. Not good!

Scrutiny of one's own words and actions is always useful. For the good of SV, too.

Let us be happy in learning and speaking with others and writing here.

LET

US
.
Last edited by LightBrigade on Mon Jul 16, 2007 5:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Magus »

After another mod dares utter "is that you the answer, Aldan?", a mod practicing irony if not sarcasm at the expense of a simple status member! And much unfairly so! What a fine example set for the rest by a learned young man! So, is that you, Magus, the answer to what you posted?
I really didn't read anything except for Aldan's post... I was simply making a Bob Dylan joke (due to Aldan talking about blowing in the wind... and, if you're familiar with the song, the lyrics go "the answer my friend is blowing in the wind." )

I'm sorry if you took offense to it, and if you did than I give you my most heart-felt apology. I meant absolutely nothing by it, and have already deleted the post. Please understand, though, that I meant it as nothing other than a light-hearted joke, in good nature, directed towards a friend and fellow poster.

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