Speculative Vision

Sailors where correct and scientists where wrong... that is why I don't believe everything scientists tell me, or everything that is in text books....

Remember how geocentrism used to be the accepted norm?

I'm not saying that science has not made mistakes in the past, that they are infallible and always correct. However, science, largely, I find, is accurate, empirical, and wonderfully explanitive. I find it as the best way to explain the workings of the universe (however, I don't hold it to necesarilly be the only way).

Like I said before: I'm an atheist with my head, but a christian with my heart.

I'm skeptical concerning most things without expressed scientific proof for it.

Actually, if you'll allow me to divirge for a moment from the exact topic at hand, I was just watching the National Geographic Channel, where they were having a special on the Moon: about how it's believed to have helped shape the Earth, promote the evolution of life on the planet, and how, even today, it can trigger volcanic eruptions and earthquakes. As I was watching it (specifically the first half, where they talked about how it shaped the Earth) I was amazed how closely what science said reflected what was written in the Bible (this is in terms of order of creation, as well as general chronology/passage-of-time).

you seem to think it's not that many {if I assume correctly}

No, I know of it's prevelance (in general terms at least). However, I find it to be a minority opinion (from just my observation and what I notice in the news) and one without any substantial basis (at least in terms of strictly "The Bible is only what it says it is" terms).

For several reasons, I do not hold The Bible to be only, and wholly, what is says it is. I believe that it was originally written down as it was meant to be, through divine inspiration (but, even then, more likely than not to be open to scientific interperitation). Also, you have to realize, written perfectly though it was, it has been edited, translated and reworked through the countless generations since its first inception.

One instance of a scientific interperitation of The Bible might be very well what you mentioned already:

Bible shows God creating man from the dust of the ground, it does not say, man come from another animal.

On the special on the Moon, for one instance, they claimed that the Moon was once fifteen times closer to The Earth than it is today (I think they said that would be around 85,000 miles away). At this point in time the gravitation that it exerted upon the Earth's surface was enough to actually alter it, shape it, and ultimately make the ground move in the same way as a tidal wave would. Eventually the distance between them grew, and the ground itself could not be affected by The Moon's gravitational pull, but the oceans could. Tidal waves grew to roughly 10,000 feet tall, due to its still incredibly close proximity to The Earth, and washed over the fledgling planet, sucking soil and rock into the sea from far inland. This change in chemical composition is what created The Primordial Soup, and from it the first strands of DNA.

That is where the program itself left the issue, but I venture a little further into the matter. The DNA is from the chemical imbalance caused by when the soil was added the the water. I look at this and see man coming from the dirt on the ground. The material that first made him certainly came from there, and from there punctuated equillibrium would allow for rapid evolution of man (and, keeping in mind 2 Peter 3:8, which states "But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day," we could infer that creation, by modern reckoning, took place over the course of 7,000 in all), which could thus explain creation in a purely scientific way.


As for the bit about the birds... what can I say: evolution works in mysterious ways.



Evolution could have come about to create birds in the proper order. Not all birds fly, as you well know, so the earliest species of them might have been flightless, who later evolved with the capacity to fly.

As for the stars bit you mentioned, might I offer that they could be referring to the stars seen from the perspective of the Earth? Because, after all, light (which can be conceived as The Sun) was made in the beginning (pardon the pun). When the original planet (I believe that it was called Theis, after the mother of Selene in mythology) plummeted into the Earth, a large body of debri was flung up into both the atmosphere and around it (clouding out the surface and also making rings around the Earth). The rings are what eventually were drawn together to form The Moon. The dust in the sky eventually cleared, which would have offered a good view into the cosmos, thus giving the planet the first view of the stars since the events which acted toward creation.

And Eve was made out of part of Adam.....

Siamese twins?

While we're on the subject, here's an article from CNN.com that you all might find interesting:

HOBART, Australia (AP) -- A squid as long as a bus and weighing 550 pounds washed up on an Australian beach, officials said Wednesday.

The giant squid was found by a beachcomber on the Australian island state of Tasmania.

"It is a whopper," said Genefor Walker-Smith, a zoologist who studies invertebrates at the Tasmanian Museum.

Giant squid live in waters off southern Australia and New Zealand -- where a half-ton colossus, believed to be the world's largest, was caught in February. They attract the sperm whales that feed on them.

The dead squid, measuring 3 feet across at its widest point and 26 feet from the tip of its body to the end of its tentacles, was found early Wednesday by a beachcomber at Ocean Beach on the island state of Tasmania's west coast, the museum said.

The squid was expected to be taken to the museum, where DNA and other scientific tests would be carried out before it is preserved and possibly put on public display.

For anyone thinking of a calamari feast, Walker-Smith said giant squid contain high levels of ammonia in their bodies as a buoyancy aid.

"It would not taste very nice at all," she said.

New Zealand fishermen netted a 1,100-pound, 33-foot-long squid in the Southern Ocean in February. It is widely believed to be the largest specimen of the rare and mysterious deep-water species Mesonychoteuthis hamiltoni, or colossal squid, ever caught.

Experts believe the creatures, which have long been one of the most mysterious denizens of the deep ocean, may grow even bigger -- up to 46-feet long.

Interesting stuff…. However I want to get back to sights etc so that I can now and then post one, and you can judge…

I do want to address the areas raised, in say another topic please give me time to start new topic and address what has be raised yes…?????

One thing:

What do you mean by “believe in creation”? I am asking because creation must have happened at some time (otherwise we are in a non-existent world like in a dream now) while I suspect that by “creation” you probably mean “Biblical Creation”, the particular manner in which the world was created, which is what the Bible tells us. I hope you forgive my asking but it is not right only to assume what others mean.

Yes I mean “Biblical Creation”

I know others believe in creation, but not in “Biblical Creation”…. my bad for not making that clear…

While we're on the subject, here's an article from CNN.com that you all might find interesting:

oh and Magus I have move that stuff to another topic

So as not to load up this topic yes????

BTW: read it in the paper this morning...

oh and I have post a copy of you post in the other topic...

Unique Cobra, “Dragon” Figurines Found in Bulgaria’s Perperikon

If science wasn’t so sure that dinosaurs and man missed each other by approximately 40 million years, they might have described one of these figurines as a dinosaur rather than a dragon. Of course, Christians believe that “dinosaurs” were created in the same week as man. Christians thus shouldn’t be surprised when evidence that dinosaurs and man co-existed. If you haven’t already, please visit s8int.com’s special section;Dinosaurs in Literature, Art and History, currently 67 pages

Sofia News Agency, July 10, 2007

Bulgarian archaeologists have found two unique ceramic figurines of a cobra and dragon heads as they continue excavation at the rock sanctuary of Perperikon, near Kardzhali in southern Bulgaria.

The two figurines were part of the ornaments of a clay altar dating roughly to the period between the 3rd and 1st centuries before Christ, said archaeologist Nikolai Ovcharov, who oversees the dig.

The finds are probably part of the Tsepina culture, named after one of the key Thracian fortresses in the Rodopi Mountains, which played an important strategic role well into the medieval era.

The two finds are more important than the Roman era finds because they offer much more insight into the distinctive traits of the local culture, Ovcharov said.

Snakes were considered guardians of the deeps and, as such, were closely associated to the cult of Dionysus, whose shrine the Bulgarian archaeologists are currently excavating.

The next stage of the dig, which is staffed by close to 150 people, is to examine the southern quarter of the city, where the archaeologists hope to remain the remains of a third palace, dating back to the Thracian era.

The city of Perperikon has been inhabited since around 5000 BC, while a nearby shrine dedicated to Orpheus, near the village of Tatul, dates back to 6000 BC and is older than the Pyramids of Giza.

from http://s8int.com/WordPress/?p=539 images there...

interesting...dragon or dinosaur

A Psychologist saw a Living Pterosaur, According to American Author Jonathan Whitcomb

A prehistoric-looking creature flies over an island in Papua New Guinea, according to psychologist Brian Hennessy.

LONG BEACH, Calif./EWORLDWIRE/June 8, 2007 --- A psychologist at a university in Central China asserts that he saw, in 1971, a prehistoric-looking creature flying in Papua New Guinea. Brian Hennessy of the Chongqing University of Medical Sciences described the creature as black or dark brown with a "longish narrow tail" and a beak that was "indistinguishable from the head."


In the daylight of an early morning on Bougainville Island, on a dirt road that led down to the coast, Hennessy heard a slow "flapping" and looked up to see a "very big" creature with a "horn" at the back of its head. There was "not a feather in sight."

After thirty-five years, in the summer of 2006, a friend of Hennessy referred him to the American, Jonathan Whitcomb, author of the book "Searching for Ropens," who interviewed him. The eyewitness account was added to the second edition of the book, which was published on May 30, 2007.

Until 2006, Hennessy had been unaware of cryptozoological expeditions related to what he had seen. (Whitcomb's book tells how, in the 1990's, a few Americans began investigating, in Papua New Guinea, creatures described like living pterosaurs, commonly called, by Americans, "pterodactyls.") Hennessy was also unaware that many natives have names for giant flying creatures: One of those names is "ropen."

The American author noticed similarities between Hennessy's description and that of a creature reported 500 miles to the west, near Finschhafen, Papua New Guinea, twenty-seven years earlier. In 1944, Duane Hodgkinson, now living in Montana, saw a giant "prehistoric" creature flying over a clearing where he and another soldier were standing.

Whitcomb had interviewed Hodgkinson in 2004 and realized, two years later, that both the American veteran and the psychologist had seen a dark flying creature with a long tail but no sign of feathers. Both men used the word "prehistoric."

In 2006, Whitcomb showed Hennessy a series of sketches for determining the shape of the head, including the beak and the head appendage. (A similar questionnaire had been given to Hodgkinson two years earlier.) Whitcomb then drew a sketch based on Hennessy's answers, and concluded that Hennessy had seen, in 1971, the same type of creature that Hodgkinson had seen in 1944.


Whitcomb's book asserts that Rhamphorhynchoid pterosaurs live in Papua New Guinea and that they are larger than Rhamphorhynchoid fossils. Hodgkinson is specific about the size of the creature he saw: similar to that of a "Piper Tri-Pacer airplane" (twenty-nine-foot wingspan).

from http://s8int.com/phile/eyewit29.html

Person sees 2 Pterosaurs

I had been overseas for 12 months and took a 30 day leave before reporting to Camp Lejeune, NC in early March, 1971, to finish my hitch in the Corps.

Upon arrival there I learned of voluntary duty available in Cuba ; and being much fonder of duty in the field rather than garrison duty ,I went. I have never regretted the decision.

It was probably about mid-March when the C-130 prop plane arrived at the Naval Air Station, Quantanamo Bay, Cuba. From the NAS we travelled by boat along dense jungle lined canal to the Naval Station and site of the Marine Barracks.

I was not stationed to the Barracks; but to 2nd Battallion, 8th Regiment (reinforced), H&S Co., 106mm recoiless rifle platoon.

Reporting there at the point was preceded by a long jeep ride past rather desolate looking terrain.

Most of the buildings there were white painted wood; but the 106 Plt. was quartered in the large yellow metal building where the guns were stored, the Jeeps lined up outside.

This was a hardship duty station, for which we were compensated an additional $2 per day ! I sometimes ran, even the obstacle course, for entertainment in the evenings ; but all in all, it was good duty.

I had been in Cuba for perhaps 4 months and the SeaBees were engaged in constructing new barracks for us. It was a shame to see what I considered the end of an era when the old wooden buildings were dozed.

We were engaged during the day in physical training, close order drill, gun drill, cleaning and maintenance, classes and other sundry routine common to service life, including a break for lunch with its attending rest period or free time.


"It was during such a free time period, in the middle of the day, that I was outside and witnessed the Pterosaurs."

It was a beautiful, clear Summer day, hot ( but we were pretty well acclimated to that), still; most of the platoon was in the new barracks "hanging out". I was looking in the direction of the ocean when I saw an incredible sight. It mesmerized me!

I am an artist with sharp eye for detail;and was determined to drink in the visage before me for future recording on paper. I saw 2 Pterosaurs (or Pterodactyls...what's in a name?) flying together at low altitude, perhaps 100 feet, very close in range from where I was standing, so that I had a perfectly clear view of them.

The rythym of their large wings was very graceful, slow ; and yet they were flying and not merely gliding, like turkey vultures do here in Ohio.

The rate of their wings was more like that of crows, perhaps a little slower; but very graceful. The structure and the texture of the wings appeared to be very similar to that of bats: particularly in that the struts of the wings emanated from a "hand" as fingers would ; except that a couple of the fingers were short (as for grasping) and the other ran out to the tip of the wing, others back to the trailing edge of the wing to stretch the wing membrane as a kite would.

The Pterosaurs I saw had the short hind legs attached to the rearwardmost part of the wing, and they had a long tail trailing behind with a tuft of hair at the end.

The head was disproportionately large, with a long crest at the back, long bill, long neck with a crook in it. The chest of the creatures was similarly prominent, protruding forward like the prow of an old ship.

The vertebrae of their backs was noticeable, mostly between the shoulders. I would estimate their wingspan to be roughly 10 feet.

It has been 30 years now since I was there, memory fades, even for something so startling as that. I recall running to a barracks as they were well past me, grabbing Sgt,Cunningham by the arm and trying to drag his reticent self outside to witness them and corroborrate my sighting, but by the time I could get him outside they were gone.

I rotated back to the States not long after that; and for the rest of my tour I never saw them again. Eskin C. Kuhn

from http://s8int.com/eyewit1.html

This seems like a topic for...The Cryptoman!!!

Seriously, have you perused any cryptozoological literature? Books by Bernard Heuvelmans, Ivan Sanderson, Loren Coleman, and Karl Shuker are full of stories of sightings of creatures long thought extinct. The coelacanth is sort of a mascot of cryptozoology. it was thought to be extinct for 65 million years, only to show up again in 1938.

Some of the beasts reported in the annals of cryptozoology are: the mokele mbembe, a possible sauropod dinosaur (?) in Africa; the pterosaurs mentioned earlier; thunderbirds, possibly still-living teratorns, huge birds thought to be extinct for 10,000 years; mapinguary, a possible ground sloth from the Amazon; and the legendary burrunjor of northernmost fringes of the Northern Territories in Australia, said to resemble a theropod dinosaur. Some sea serpents may also be survivors from the Age of Dinosaurs.

Here's a link that anyone interested in "mystery animals" might find of interest:

http://www.newanimal.org/index.htm

By the way, the scientists are not always right when it comes to the existence, or lack thereof, of animals in certain areas. This isn't the same as an animal thought to be extinct millions of years, but biologists and naturalists insist that the puma has been extinct in New York State for years. It's not; I saw one dead at the side of the Mass Turnpike, near the NY - Mass border. It was definitely a cougar; a large, sleek, brown cat with a long tail and rounded ears. It was definitely a dead puma, probably hit by a car. They are seen periodically in this area, but their existence is officially denied.

Kind of like Bigfoot, and Nessie, and Champ, and the Yowie, and...

I have read a little on the net about cryptozoological, but no books.... there is loads of things I what to study of course with hardly anytime on my hands..

I problem for now just study more about it on the net....

I know of that site...

There is also:

http://www.cryptozoology.st/

Which mainly covers sea creatures.....

Hey Dark Knight!

Do you know about this site?:

http://www.cryptozoology.com/

It has some interesting news stories some times. It's a good way to keep up with the latest crypto news. The forums there get rather heated (I avoid them), but the news features are interesting.

And this one seems to have some old articles about possible living dinosaurs:

http://www.strangeark.com/

And this one looks like it could be interesting (you don't have to adhere to their theories to read their information):

http://www.unknown-creatures.com/

However, I would recommend getting your hands on some books about cryptozoology and cryptids. I completely understand not having a lot of time, but you'll get far more in-depth information out of books.

RHFay wrote:Hey Dark Knight!

Do you know about this site?:

http://www.cryptozoology.com/

No I don't, I have not had the time to really look around and find other sites on the subject, so yea I only knew of two sites...

Thanks for the links...

However, I would recommend getting your hands on some books about cryptozoology and cryptids. I completely understand not having a lot of time, but you'll get far more in-depth information out of books.

Under to much stress at work at the moment to read anything....