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Post by Dark Knight »

All WILL BE SAVED? part 11, By Dark Knight

Universalism is the Answer? YES part3


Problem with traditional creed

Take next a clear exposure of the traditional creed from another point of view. Christ, we know from the Bible, is the Saviour of the world. He is, therefore, on the popular view, the Saviour of those whom in fact He does not save. This evidently follows. But this principle once admitted, it is wholly immaterial, as a matter of reasoning, what the percentage of the lost may be. Although out of the countless myriads of our race but a few hundreds were saved, God would still save every man. Indeed, though not even one solitary soul were saved, God would still, on the principle popularly held, save every man. For that principle is this, that to offer salvation, though the offer come to nothing, is to save. Hence it undoubtedly follows that God might be the Saviour of the whole race of men, though not one soul were in fact saved. All might be saved on this principle, though all were in fact damned! There is a further difficulty in the way of the popular creed. Who are those whom it represents as finally unsaved ? --- the finally impenitent, the most obstinate sinners. And what is that but to say, in so many words, that those precisely whose case furnished the strongest reason for the Saviour’s mission, are unsaved? Admit their guilt, recognize as we do to the very utmost the need and the certainty of retribution; still, when all this has been said, it remains true that Christ came to save the "lost," and if so, the more "lost" any are, the more Christ came to seek and to save them, and if He fails, the more marked His failure.
Thus on the ordinary view, precisely those for whom Christ especially came receive no salvation; those whose claims are strongest perish, those whose claims on a Saviour are weakest, are rescued. For the fullest admission of the guilt of sin, must not blind us to the sinner's claim on our sympathy. Sin abounding calls out grace much more abounding; such is the great principle enunciated by Saint Paul . Are we to say with the traditional creed, sin abounding beyond certain limits (obstinate sin) ceases to call out grace?


From Christ Triumphant”, by Thomas Allin

Escape from punishment?

Others take refuge in the vain assertion that the larger hope implies the escape of the wicked from all punishment, and places the sinner on a level with the saint. Let me once for all reply that no statement can be more unfounded. For the very method of healing the finally impenitent, as taught by the larger hope, is the severity of the divine judgement, is that consuming fire, which must burn up all iniquity. Thus the larger hope is especially bound to teach for the obstinate sinner the certainty of retribution, for in God's judgements it sees the mode of cure (see chap. vi.), the mode in which the grace of the Atonement often reaches the touched heart.

True Universalism deters from sin, because it preaches a righteous retribution with unequalled force and certainty: on this its creed largely hinges. Restoration is taught because of retribution, a fact on which too much stress cannot be laid. "Thou, Lord, art merciful for Thou renders to every man according to his work."- Ps. lxii. 12

from Christ Triumphant”, by Thomas Allin

Forgiveness, like salvation, is always through repentance and faith in Jesus Christ. God’s standard remains the same. The loving and righteous judgment of God for all sinners will ensure that all people, in God’s time, will come to repentance and accept the sacrifice of Jesus Christ, by faith. From http://www.godoftheages.com/site/1351515/page/686506

Eon Life, Aeon Life, Aion Life

As we can see aeon, has almost the same spelling as Aion. Aeon or eon comes from Aion. This is the correct translation of the word. The incorrect translating, of this word has lend to the problems, and incorrect teaching.

Aeon = A period of time.

If Aion truly means eon {or aeon English spelling}, a period of time and not eternal, then surely when it says "eternal life" when referring to the saints, then surely the saints don’t live forever?, someone could ask.

This is faulty reasoning basic on misunderstanding.

Let’s look at this….

“I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob”, does this mean he is the God of only these people?, No of course not.

This does not mean that God is only the God of these people.

So when the saints get eon Life, they get to live in certain ages {periods of time}, that others miss out on, it does not mean that when the ages end that the saints will die.

The saints will live forever because they will be Immortal {1 Corinthians 15:54}.

Immortal people can’t die, no matter how hard they try.
From http://www.martinzender.com/zenderature.htm

Saints get to live during the Kingdom that will last a thousand years, other people miss out.

So everyone will be Immortal in the end.....


But what of the Scripture support for Universalism....more on why Christian Universalism is the answer....to come...
Last edited by Dark Knight on Fri Apr 21, 2006 4:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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All WILL BE SAVED? part 12, By Dark Knight

Universalism is the Answer? YES part4


Scripture support for Universalism

I have not posted much scripture support, so now lets look at this…..

Ephesians 1:11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

What does Ephesians 1:11 have to do with everyone being saved? Ephesians 1:11 is of course talking about the elect being predestinated, they will obtained an inheritance. However our focus is on the last part, notice God works all things “after the counsel of his own will”. His will, not man’s will or the Devil’s will, or anybody you care to name.

We have already looked at Free Will of man, and find that man does not have free will.

Isa 46:10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:

Psa 135:6 Whatsoever the LORD pleased, that did he in heaven, and in earth, in the seas, and all deep places.

Again it is clear the Lord {God}, will do what he what’s to do.

Dan 4:35 And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?

God will do all his pleasure, will work all according to his will.

God will do according to his will. Why is this important, because as you will see Scripture says what God’s Will is when it comes to salvation.


Timothy 2:3-4 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

Notice God will have ALL MEN {mankind} be saved, not just some or a few. Not just the elect or the saints. God is the Saviour of all men (including women), this is Good, it is the Good News, and they will come to the knowledge of the truth. God is not the potential saviour of all men, he is the Savior of all men. People can not choice God, God draws them. We have already stated that God will do his will, which is to save all men, no one can stop him, and he worketh all things to achieve this end.

Who is the Savior of all men, especially those who are believers. 1 Tim 4:10

Notice it does not say exclusive (only) believers, it says especially. Someone could say “I like all my friends, especially my Girlfriend”. It is not saying he is only the Savior of believers. What it does say is “Savior of all men” .


Romans 5:19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

Notice “many where made sinners and it is the same many that will be made righteous. It does not say “a few” or “some” will be made righteous, as the many Christian teachers would have you believe. And who’s obedience are we looking at?, the obedience of Christ. It is even more clear in the next verses we will look at.

1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

Notice all die in Adam, and the all shall be made alive. It is not saying some, or a few, it is all. We know that everyone dies, and everyone will be made alive. That’s right all will be made alive, but there is an order, the saints { Christ's at his coming} will be saved first. Christ was the first, then the saints are made alive, and then everyone else will also be made alive.

1 John 4:14 And we--we have seen and do testify, that the Father hath sent the Son--Saviour of the world;

Notice the Son is the Saviour of the world, not just the saints, or the elect. The Father sent the Son who is the Saviour of the world.

Joh 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

Notice what sin he takes away, the sin of the world, not just the sin of the saints, or the elect, he takes away the sin of the world. He died for everyone, not just the elect, and he paid the price for everyone’s sins, not just some small group of the elect, or only those who believe.

John 10:14-16
14 I am the good shepherd; and I know My sheep, and am known by My own. 15 As the Father knows Me, even so I know the Father; and I lay down My life for the sheep. 16 And other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock and one shepherd.

I have already covered this, this is what I said: “My sheep are the elect, and are saved while they are alive, they have been chosen and are given the free gift. But Jesus the good shepherd has other sheep, the large body of unbelievers. And what does it say of them, it says they will hear his voice. It says the two kinds will become one flock, unbelievers will be saved…….they will here his voice and become believers, there will be one flock…”.

Romans 14:11 "For it is written, As I live saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue confess to GOD."

Philippians 2:10 "That at the name of Jesus EVERY knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
11 And that EVERY tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father."
The tongue as an organ of speech.

Confess is EXOMOLOGEO

to acknowledge, to thank, praise and promise, receive unequivocally, so! – unless this confessing is spontaneous and without any coercion, there is no way that it can be to the glory of God.
From http://www.all-creatures.org/ach/book-4.html

Notice every tongue, there is not some group however big or small in Hell, that is not confessing. More to the point there is no group that is in Hell that is confessing. Everyone is confessing, praising God, and all these people have been saved, so of course they are praising God.

Psalm 145:9 The LORD is good to all: and his tender mercies are over all his works.
10 All thy works shall praise thee, O LORD; and thy saints shall bless thee.

Here we see again, that everyone will praise the Lord.

Reconcile all, unify all, gather together in one all

Colossians 1:20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

All things are going to be reconcile, how can everyone be reconciled, if they are in Hell? He has made peace through the blood of the cross. Christ has paid the price for everyone, no one has been excluded.

Eph 1:9 Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:
Eph 1:10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:

Here it is again, all things are going to be gathered in Christ, there is not some group of sinners that are going to miss out. That is everybody, even you…. :wink: :arrow: :D

And here we see, it is according to his good pleasure to do this, and we already know that God will do all his pleasure.

Revelation 21:4 "And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away. And He that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new.
5 And He said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful."

Notice all things will be made new, that includes everybody. Everybody will be made new, we {Everybody} will have new bodies, which will be much better than these old things we have now….. :arrow:

Notice also there will be no more pain, there will be no one left burning in the lake of fire. No person in heaven will be crying or be in sorrow, because a loved one is stuck in hell forever. No one will be in the lake of fire forever.....

So what does happen in the Lake of fire? :?:

Yes people will be cast into the Lake of Fire, but have no fear, God is not going to burn anyone forever.....

Find out what really does happen....

more on why Christian Universalism is the answer....to come...
Last edited by Dark Knight on Fri Apr 21, 2006 5:41 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Post by ola »

[this post has been erased]
Last edited by ola on Fri Mar 31, 2006 12:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"He's a stranger to some
and a vision to none,
he can never get enough
get enough of the one" 30stm-from yesterday
There are so many sides to life....why should I only have one? :smt084

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Post by Dark Knight »

Hi Ola
ola wrote:Since this is a religious subject, I guess it is best posted here (sorry for interrupting any topics, I just found this today and just eflt I had to post it).
Yes you have interrupted a topic, that I take it you are not reading, if you where reading it, you would have no doubt be sorry for interrupting "the topic"....

I am up to part 11, have done about 12 posts on this, with part 12 in the works.....If you had been reading the topic you would know how big it is....and how important it is...

This "study" that you have posted, has nothing to do with the current topic....so it is

:offtopic: :wink:

I don't think that you "just eflt I had to post it", you may have thought you had to post it, but I do think it could have waited. I note you may forget to post it when the current discussion is over,

but discussing some survey, in the middle of the current discussion would be unhelpful, and divert from the current topic.

I do hope I'm not being to hard, and I do note that you said "sorry"

If anyone has any questions on the current topic "All WILL BE SAVED?", or discussion, you can post here or PM me, otherwise sit back, enjoy a drink, and wait for the next part.....

hopefully there will be no more of these inturrptions...

See You in Heaven Ola....

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Post by Dark Knight »

Hi Ola, Thankyou for erasing the post.

Please everyone note that my previous post refers to a post by Ola, that has now be erased.

Part 12 of "All WILL BE SAVED?", Coming Soon.....to a thread near you......well this thread actually.... :wink:

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Post by Dark Knight »

All WILL BE SAVED? part 13, By Dark Knight

Universalism is the Answer? YES part5


What happens in the Lake of fire…???

Will people be sent there? Yes

What’s this, I thought everybody was going to be saved?

Yes that is right, but all unbelievers, past through the lake of fire, they spent an age there, a period of time.

After they come out they will be believers, they will go to Heaven.
however the lake of fire is no picnic….

“The teaching concerning the lake of fire does not appear anywhere in Scripture except in the book of Revelation where it is spoken of in the following passages: Rev. 14:10-11; 19:20; 20:10; 20:13-15 and 21:8. This last passage definitely states, "But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolators, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone: which is the second death." There should be no question remaining as to the certainty of this lake of fire; neither should there be any doubt as to the awful consequence of having to be cast into it. These Scriptures with their dreadful foreboding should be a fearful warning to all unthinking and foolish people who, because of their love for the world, the flesh, and the devil, have dared to ask why we should serve God now if all are going to be saved eventually."
From http://www.savior-of-all.com/lakeoffire.html The Savior of the World series
by
J. Preston Eby

The passage in the Bible certainly covers a large group, and includes everyone that has not be saved, while they where alive.

Rev 20:12 and I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and scrolls were opened, and another scroll was opened, which is that of the life, and the dead were judged out of the things written in the scrolls--according to their works;
Rev 20:13 and the sea did give up those dead in it, and the death and the hades did give up the dead in them, and they were judged, each one according to their works;
Rev 20:14 and the death and the hades were cast to the lake of the fire--this is the second death;
Rev 20:15 and if any one was not found written in the scroll of the life, he was cast to the lake of the fire.

Here we see that anyone not found written in the scroll of life is to be cast into the lake of fire.

What about other passages which are not in Rev on this:

Mat 25:41 Then shall he say also to those on the left hand, Go ye from me, the cursed, to the fire, the age-during, that hath been prepared for the Devil and his messengers;

Here Jesus is talking, and he says a certain group of people will go to the fire, this of course is the same fire as in Revelation, it is the lake of Fire.

YLT Young’s
Mat 25:45 `Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say to you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of these, the least, ye did it not to me.
Mat 25:46 And these shall go away to punishment age-during, but the righteous to life age-during.'

Here Jesus is talking about the same group, and this group is to be punished, however as we noted before it only lasts an age. This group goes to the lake of fire. I already pointed out that the righteous get to live during a certain age, but after the ages they live forever.

What happens in the Lake of fire?
Are I can see you say, “answer the question, “So what does happens in the Lake of fire?, Please tell me”…..

Lets go back to J. Preston Eby, to get his take on it.

“Because of the gross misunderstanding of almost all people concerning the lake of fire, I would like to draw your attention to three words found in the passage quoted above. "But the fearful, and unbelieving, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which BURNS with FIRE and BRIMSTONE: which is the second death." The word BURN means combustion, or to consume. To consume does not mean to annihilate, for there is no such thing as annihilation in the absolute sense. When fire consumes a log in your fireplace it does not destroy any of the elements within the log, it merely changes their form. Combustion is the process by which chemicals combine to form new chemicals. For example: a tree might be cut down, sawed into fire wood, and burned. When the wood is burning the heat causes the chemicals of which the wood is composed to vaporize, mixing with the oxygen in the air to form new chemicals, including water and the gas carbon dioxide. So what was formerly a tree is no longer identified as the form of a tree, but the substance thereof is now simply CHANGED into a DIFFERENT FORM and exists in its new form within the atmosphere as water, carbon dioxide, etc. Thus, to bum, means to CHANGE. Furthermore, it is interesting to note that fire does not burn down; it always burns up; it seeks the highest level. And all that it consumes "goes up in smoke," to exist in a new form in a higher dimension. Even if you take a pan of water and place it over a fire, before long the water will take on the property of the fire and will begin to go up in steam. To burn means to CHANGE, and the change is always UPWARD in its motion.

FIRE is the heat and light that you feel and see when something burns. It takes heat to start a fire, but once the fire is started it produces heat that keeps the process going. Thus, fire is really HEAT and LIGHT.

In my study of the lake that burns with fire and brimstone I was very much helped and impressed by the understanding given by Charles Pridgeon and I would like to quote from his scholarly work on the subject of BRIMSTONE. He says: "The Lake of Fire and Brimstone signifies a fire burning with brimstone; the word 'brimstone' or sulphur defines the character of the fire. The Greek word THEION translated 'brimstone' is exactly the same word THEION which means 'divine.' Sulphur was sacred to the deity among the ancient Greeks; and was used to fumigate, to purify, and to cleanse and consecrate to the deity; for this purpose they burned it in their incense. In Homer's Iliad (16:228), one is spoken of as purifying a goblet with fire and brimstone. The verb derived from THEION is THEIOO, which means to hallow, to make divine, or to dedicate to a god (See Liddell and Scott Greek-English Lexicon, 1897 Edition). To any Greek, or any trained in the Greek language, a 'lake of fire and brimstone' would mean a 'lake of divine purification.' The idea of judgment need not be excluded. Divine purification and divine consecration are the plain meaning in ancient Greek. In the ordinary explanation, this fundamental meaning of the word is entirely left out, and nothing but eternal torment is associated with it" -end quote.

I realize that the above thoughts define the subject very briefly, but let us summarize the meanings thus: BURN means combustion; to change the form of. FIRE means heat and light. BRIMSTONE means divine. Putting these three together can we not see that the lake burning with fire and brimstone is, actually, DIVINE HEAT AND LIGHT PRODUCING A CHANGE! Is such a process eternal? All the laws of nature shout that it is not! More than 2500 years ago the Holy Spirit warned the wicked inhabitants of Jerusalem that God would kindle a fire at Jerusalem's gates which would devour her palaces. "But if you will not hearken unto Me ... then will I kindle a fire in the gates thereof, and it shall devour the palaces of Jerusalem, and it shall not he quenched" (Jer. 17:27). Did not God say this fire "shall NOT BE QUENCHED?" This prophecy was fulfilled and the fire did occur a few years later and it did destroy all the houses of Jerusalem (Jer. 52:13). Since God said no person or thing would "quench" this fire, did that mean that it would burn for ever? Since it accomplished the work it was sent to do, and since it is NOT BURNING TODAY, it obviously went out by itself after accomplishing its purpose! Unquenchable fire is not eternal fire - it is simply fire that cannot be put out until it has consumed or changed everything it is possible for it to change! It then simply goes out, for there is nothing more to burn. Yet I hear the preachers ranting and raving about poor souls being cast into bell fire where "their worm dies not, and the fire is not quenched" and this, we are told, means eternal, unending torment. How foolish, illogical, and deceptive! Such a view contradicts the plain meaning of the term "unquenchable" and its use in the Word of God.”
………. From http://www.savior-of-all.com/lakeoffire.html The Savior of the World series

So we see that this is a 'lake of divine purification’, all unbelievers go though purification. At last we final know what happens in the lake of fire.


“The final work of God in this world will be the destruction of the world (order) by penal fire. That will change all things. That will melt all the elements, so that no man can tell you where his original grab was. It will burn up all the governments, institutions, systems, and fruitage of the carnal mind. It will melt all the customs, cultures, traditions, and practices of society and make of this earth a new earth wherein dwells righteousness. Every man's work will eventually be tested in this fire. The fire will try every man's work of what sort it is. If you and I build into our walls wood, hay, and stubble, that fire will find it out, and the wall will come tumbling down. When God turns on the HEAT, the BLAZING LIGHT OF HIS SPIRIT AND WORD - some things begin to change! The fire is never sent to destroy the PERSON, but to purge out all that hinders and separates him from his God, to consume the pride, arrogance, hostility, defiance, and rebellion of the flesh, the carnal mind, that He might then be wooed and drawn by the Holy Spirit unto the Father of Spirits and live.”

“That is the end of death and hell and sin, for God shall destroy death in the lake of fire, He shall burn up hell in the lake of fire, and He shall consume sin and rebellion in the lake of fire. How I long to see the end of sin and death and hell! The time is coming, praise His name! when God's Kingdom shall be All in All, and there shall be neither sin, nor sinners, nor death, nor hell. It is clear that God does not destroy men in the lake of fire, nowhere does it say that, for that would be a contradiction of terms. How can you destroy death by creating death? How can you abolish death by bringing men under the power of eternal death from which there is no escape? Oh, no, it is not men who are destroyed in the lake of fire - it is SIN and DEATH and HELL that are destroyed. "And the last enemy that shall be destroyed is death" (I Cor. 15:26). Thus, the lake of fire is nothing more nor less than THE DEATH OF DEATH!”
From http://www.savior-of-all.com/lakeoffire.html

When J. Preston Eby says “wood, hay, and stubble” he is referring to:

1Co 3:12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
1Co 3:13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
1Co 3:14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
1Co 3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

A lot of people make the mistake of applying the above passages only to believers, but this is because they think only believers will be saved. However the above passage is talking about believers and unbelievers.

However the unbelievers work is burnt up. Here we see that while the work is burnt up, the person is saved, but here again is the fire. It is not just the work that is put in fire, the work gets burnt up, and the person also goes through fire, but the person is saved by the fire.

But it say’s “If any man's work abide”, are you sure this talking about believers?

“The Bible says that a good tree cannot bear bad fruit neither can a bad tree bear good fruit. (Matthew 7:18 )

Unbelievers’ works cannot stand the test of fire because their works are based on the religions of human faith, and self-righteousness. However, believers’ works will stand the test of fire because their works are based on the Righteousness of God through the faith OF Christ.”
From http://www.godoftheages.com/site/1351515/page/686528

In Matthew 7:18, it is not talking about actual trees that grow in the ground, it is talking about people. If we look at the earlier passages in Matt 7, we can see that.

Mat 7:15 `But, take heed of the false prophets, who come unto you in sheep's clothing, and inwardly are ravening wolves.
Mat 7:16 From their fruits ye shall know them; do men gather from thorns grapes? or from thistles figs?
Mat 7:17 so every good tree doth yield good fruits, but the bad tree doth yield evil fruits.
Mat 7:18 A good tree is not able to yield evil fruits, nor a bad tree to yield good fruits.
Mat 7:19 Every tree not yielding good fruit is cut down and is cast to fire:
Mat 7:20 therefore from their fruits ye shall know them.

Here we see the Bad Trees (unbelievers) can not yield good fruits. In other words a bad person can not do good works, and therefore will not receive a reward. There bad fruit (or works) will be burnt up.
Good Trees (believers), yield good fruits. Believers are the good tress, they do good works and they are rewarded.
Notice also that the bad tress are “cast to fire”. A tree “not yielding good fruit”, is a bad tree, therefore these are the tress (or people), cast to fire.

TORMENTED

But what about people being TORMENTED, does not the Bible say people are TORMENTED? , Yes it does. Now lets look at this, again I turn to “The Savior of the World series”



TORMENTED IN THE PRESENCE OF THE LAMB

“The words torment, tormented, tormentors, and torments occur twenty-one times in the King James version, and all in the New Testament. Three of these are in connection with the lake of fire. Let me give you the quotations. "The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of His indignation; and he shall be TORMENTED WITH FIRE AND BRIMSTONE IN THE PRESENCE OF THE HOLY ANGELS (MESSENGERS) AND IN THE PRESENCE OF THE LAMB: and the smoke of their torment ascends up for ever and ever (Greek: unto the ages of the ages): and they have no rest day nor night..." (Rev. 14:10-11). "And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever (Greek: unto the ages of the ages - see Part One of this series -'Just What Do You Mean ... ETERNITY!')" (Rev. 20:10).

Notice please, in both instances, the subjects are tormented with fire and brimstone, and we have previously established what the fire and brimstone are. But Rev. 14:10 sheds further light, those are also tormented by and through another agency, which in reality sums up and constitutes the fire and brimstone, and that agency is THE PRESENCE OF THE LAMB and the holy angels, or messengers. What an amazing divine paradox! The Lamb - precious embodiment of the very character of innocence, patience, meekness, gentleness, holiness, sacrifice, and redemption - being made TORMENT to men for whom He died! The very thought seems incongruous. You see, dear ones, IT IS NOT THE NATURE of a lamb to torture anyone. It is simply not in the nature of the lamb to want to hurt in any way. Really! What could a lamb do to torture anyone? It has no capability for such a thing. And so it is with the LAMB OF GOD! The Lamb of God has no desire, no ability to inflict torture in any way - His desire is entirely redemptive - that men might have life and have it more abundantly! I cannot imagine One with the nature of a lamb packing poor lost souls like brick into a kiln, standing there blowing the fires of hell through them for ever. Such a grotesque representation charges the blessed Redeemer with crimes more heartless than those of Adoph Eichmann.

Ah, the torment comes not from the Lamb. The torment lies within the bosoms of the tormented. The Scripture does not say that the Lamb torments them! If you think it does, you are mistaken. It states that THEY ARE TORMENTED IN THE PRESENCE of the Lamb. What a thought! TORMENTED IN THE PRESENCE. The Lamb is merely present. He does not torment. The condition is within themselves. Because they are wrong and sinful in nature, wicked in their hearts, selfish in their minds, and impure in their desires, they are CONDEMNED IN THEIR CONSCIENCES by the very PRESENCE of the pure, holy, sinless, selfless, sacrificing Lamb of God. Hell is at its fiercest when it sees heaven, and not till then. When these realize the presence, or the character of the Lamb, they are tortured in their consciences, for in the Light of the Lamb they see themselves for the wretched little devils they are. The very PRESENCE of TRUTH torments the deceitful and the liar. The very PRESENCE of HOLINESS torments the immoral and corrupt. The very PRESENCE of LOVE is torment to the mean and hateful. The PRESENCE of Him who is the PRINCE OF PEACE is torture to those who live by violence and the sword. The very PRESENCE of the LIFE OF THE LAMB is the most awful torment and torture to all the opposing forces, both deceiver and deceived, until all the deceit and hostility has been taken out of them, and they come to KNOW THE LORD. When these have been exposed for a sufficient time to the PRESENCE of the Lamb, the Lamb will overcome them; His love and power will conquer their hearts; the rebellion and waywardness will be taken from them and they will at last ENJOY the Presence of the Lamb!”
From http://www.savior-of-all.com/lakeoffire.html The Savior of the World series

Hopefully now you can see that, the lake of fire brings about a change in people, and is the saving process that God uses on all unbelievers.

Next we look at who is saved now….
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All WILL BE SAVED? part 14, By Dark Knight

Universalism is the Answer? YES part6


Who are saved now?

1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

Here we see God’s overall plan, those who are Christ’s at his coming {Usually called the second coming) are made alive at his coming, they are the ones saved while they are alive. Each man {or woman}, has an order, most will be saved after they die.

What is the purpose of God save the few?

But the Question then arises, why does God only save the few, in this life.

“Now here is the awesome and glorious truth of why God is calling and preparing His elect. The elect will have an important and exciting part to play with Jesus Christ in judging and evangelising the rest of mankind (the majority) who died as unbelievers, and who will be raised up at the Second Resurrection. Ultimately ALL without exception will be given the faith to believe in the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ and will enter the Holy City, the New Jerusalem, the Kingdom of God.”From http://www.godoftheages.com

The Lamb’s book of Life is not a closed book, such that new names cannot be added to it. God will continue to add new names to it as people repent and accept Jesus Christ. Traditional Christianity does not understand this truth. If the Lamb’s book of life were a closed book, then why are the nations still being saved and coming into the Holy City?

Revelation 21:24-26
24 And the nations of those who are saved shall walk in its light, and the kings of the earth bring their glory and honour into it. 25 Its gates shall not be shut at all by day (there shall be no night there). 26 And they shall bring the glory and the honour of the nations into it.

Please note that the nations are still being saved and walk in the light of the Holy City, and the gates of the City are never closed, i.e. the offer of salvation still remains open. The kings of the earth continue to bring their glory into the New Jerusalem and join the Bride of Christ. The only way the kings of the earth can bring their glory into the Holy City is for them to become Righteous through repentance and faith in the sacrifice of Jesus Christ.

This is a wonderful and glorious picture of a continuous flow of peoples, and nations leaving the old or the first earth and joining the Bride of Christ, the New Jerusalem as people repent and accept Jesus Christ as their Saviour. Those who are privileged to be God’s elect, the Bride of Christ, will actually be evangelising and helping our fellow human beings (including our loved ones who died as unbelievers) to leave the old earth and join us, God’s Holy City, the New Jerusalem.
From http://www.godoftheages.com

Remember from our earlier coverage of what happens in the lake of fire, we saw that anyone not find in the scroll (book) of life was cast into the fire.

Rev 20:15 and if any one was not found written in the scroll of the life, he was cast to the lake of the fire.

However it does not say this is a closed book, or that new names can not be add.


Revelation 22:14 "Blessed are they that do His commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie."

The city here is the New Jerusalem, and this is part of John's vision, it is after the Great White Throne Judgment. Clearly wrongdoers are outside the city. Dogs does not refer to the animal, but is use to describe people who are unworthy to enter.

All these people are outside, but they do not stay outside forever, the bible clearly tells us that these people need healing, as is shown in Rev 22:1-2

Revelation 22:1-2 (NIV)
1Then the angel showed me the river of the water of life, as clear as crystal, flowing from the throne of God and of the Lamb down the middle of the great street of the city. On each side of the river stood the tree of life, bearing twelve crops of fruit, yielding its fruit every month. And the leaves of the tree are for the healing of the nations.

This is a continuation of John’s vision of the Holy City, the New Jerusalem. The River of Life and the Tree of Life is none other than Jesus Christ and His finished work of salvation on the cross. The leaves of the Tree are for the healing of the nations. Note that the nations still need to be healed.

The gospel of Jesus Christ will continue to be preached to the nations who are undergoing refinement and cleansing in God’s consuming Lake of Fire. They will ALL be healed of their spiritual sickness and enter the Holy City, the New Jerusalem, the Kingdom of God.
http://www.godoftheages.com

No one in the New Jerusalem needs healing, the nations outside the city need healing.

Here is the glorious truth, the nations, the unbelievers are outside, they will be heal by the leaves of the trees, which are inside. This clearly shows, that after the elect are in there heavenly places, the New Jerusalem, they will go out and heal the nations. The leaves for healing are inside, the nations that need healing are outside. Once healed, the nations, people, are brought inside.

Well that ends this part of the topic.."Universalism is the Answer? YES"

however this is not the end of the Topic "All WILL BE SAVED?"

And there you thought it was....

Next we look at Demons....and up coming Animals....only 2 or 3 parts to go......
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All WILL BE SAVED? part 15, By Dark Knight

But What about Demons?
Most Universalises focus on the point that humans well be saved, which is the most important bit, but there are other questions, which some Universalises cover usually in brief.

Will Demons/fallen angels be Saved?
YES:

Mat 8:28 And when he was come to the other side into the country of the Gergesenes, there met him two possessed with devils, coming out of the tombs, exceeding fierce, so that no man might pass by that way.
Mat 8:29 And, behold, they cried out, saying, What have we to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time?

There is a time in the future that the demons know about, where they will be torment.

Jud 6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

Here you can see some angels are kept in chains unto the day of judgement.

Mat 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

But lets look at the YLT translation

Mat 25:41 Then shall he say also to those on the left hand, Go ye from me, the cursed, to the fire, the age-during, that hath been prepared for the Devil and his messengers;

Here we see more correctly that the fire lasts an age, as I already explained. Here the unbelievers go into the fire. I have explain what happens to unbelievers already. Notice the fire had been prepared for the Devil and his angels, so we see they are going to go into the same fire for a period of time. That’s right even the Devil goes through divine purification, and is saved.

Revelation 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone,

Here we see that the devil is cast into the Lake of Fire.

This should be enough to show that demons are saved.

Up coming will Animals be raised from the dead?

an interesting question.....after that I will try to finish up the topic....

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All WILL BE SAVED? part 16, By Dark Knight

But what about Animals?


Will Animals get to heaven/ be raised from the dead?

It is very hard to find anything think on this, but there is one site that does cover it in depth. I don’t know of any passage in the bible that talks about the resurrection of animals. However that does not rule out the possibility that they will be resurrected. Some sites think that animals will not be resurrected, because the bible does not mention it, however some point to certain passages which could include animals. Other sites have the odd article that indicates that it is a possibility.

There is one site I know of that covers this in depth and says that they will be resurrected. It does not say they will all go to heaven, the person on that site believes that most of the animals will end up on other planets in the renewed universe. That person on the site believes that pets will end up in Heaven.

Know lets look at some of the passages that could include animals.


1 Corinthians 15:22 "For as in Adam ALL die, even so in Christ ALL will be made alive.

The word ALL here, is once again our old friend PAS only this time in the plural πάντες ALL ALL, and still meaning – all things, all manner of, everything, anything whatsoever, every, every kind or variety.

From http://www.all-creatures.org/ach/book-6.html

We looked at 1 Corinthians 15:22, earlier to show that all people die, and that all people will be made alive. Of course when Adam sinned, it was not just people who where affected by it, creatures where also. The dying factor was passed to animals as well as to humans. So if the ALL in 1 Corinthians 15:22 includes Animals, then all animals will be made alive.

“Colossians 1:20 "And, having made peace through the blood of His cross, by Him to reconcile all things unto Himself; by Him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in Heaven."

The verb RECONCILE is APOKATALLASSO
and according to Vine's expository dictionary means to change from one condition to another, from one form to another, to reconcile/restore completely, to bring the whole universe into full accord with the mind of God.

The word(s) ALL THINGS is PAS
it is translated in other passages as - every one, every thing, any thing, every creature, whatsoever, every branch, all manner of, and others.

From http://www.all-creatures.org/ach/book-1.html

Here again we see that this could included animals.

LUKE 3:6
"And all flesh shall see the salvation of God."
(King James) (Douay-Rhiems Catholic Version) (New King James) (Revised Standard Version) (Others).
The word ALL here is once again our old friend PAS meaning absolutely every kind or variety.

The word FLESH is of paramount importance – it is the Greek word SARX
and means the substance of any sort of body - it is the key word in the following verse.

1 Corinthians 15:39 “All flesh is not the same flesh SARX: but there is one kind of flesh SARX of men, another flesh SARX of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.”
Some of the modern translations of the scriptures translate the word SARX as MANKIND, but it is still translated from the Greek SARX meaning any kind of flesh - beast, bird, fish or human - even reptilian or prehistoric.

From http://www.all-creatures.org/ach/book-1.html

All Flesh not just humans, but animals also.

Acts 3:21 "Jesus, Whom the heavens must receive (retain) until the times of restitution of all things".

RESTITUTION is APOKATASTASIS
from apo meaning to bring back again, to restore completely in a regenerated way.

From http://www.all-creatures.org/ach/book-1.html

Here we see again that it is all things, all, everything is to be restored, surely this include animals.

1 Corinthians 15:35 "But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come? 36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die: 37 "And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other:
38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased Him, and to every seed his own body.

39 “All flesh is not the same flesh SARX: but there is one kind of flesh SARX of men, another flesh SARX of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.”
40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another. 42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption."

In verse 40 celestial is CELESTIAL is EPOURANIOS
and according to Vines means "heavenly, what pertains to, or is in heaven... of those whose sphere of activity or existence is upon, over or above the heaven, of `principalities and powers, of spiritual hosts of wickedness in heavenly places.'"

TERRESTRIAL is EPIGEIOS
meaning earthly, of earth, any kind of earthly body.

Raised in INCORRUPTION is APHTHARSIA
meaning a condition of glorious life.
Anyone who has read this far should now realise that you will see your loved ones, beloved pets, and other animals and creatures again in your's and their's eternal bodies in an unimaginably glorious eternal existence”

From http://www.all-creatures.org/ach/book-1.html

Philippians 2:10-11
10 that in the name of Jesus every knee should be bowing, celestial and terrestrial and subterranean,
11 and every tongue should be acclaiming that Jesus Christ is Lord, for the glory of God, the Father.
Revelation 5:13
13 And every creature which is in heaven and on the earth and underneath the earth and on the sea, and all in them, I hear also saying, "To Him Who is sitting on the throne-To the Lambkin-Be blessing and honor and glory and might For the eons of the eons!"

ALL creation shall bow before, and acclaim, Jesus Christ as Lord of all, to the glory of God the Father (Philippians 2:10-11; Revelation 5:13). Then Christ shall hand over the perfected kingdom to His Father.
From http://www.purposeoflife.org.uk/hell%20doc.htm

Notice every creature which is in heaven and on the earth and underneath the earth and on the sea, surely this includes animals.

Romans 8: 19 For the premonition of the creation is awaiting the unveiling of the sons of God.
20 For to vanity was the creation subjected, not voluntarily, but because of Him Who subjects it, in expectation
21 that the creation itself, also, shall be freed from the slavery of corruption into the glorious freedom of the children of God. (Concordant version)
Notice here that creation it’s self is waiting for the unveiling of the sons of God and that it shall be freed from the slavery of corruption. Creation includes all of God’s creation, all that God created, we know there will be a new Earth, but it is all of creation, the very stars and planets themselves, being renewed, surely animals will also be restored……more on Romans 8:19-21 later.

Pets

Since reading the Bible through in my teens, I have hoped that God might at least raise my pets. Most everyone believes there will be animals in the new earth, so why not the animals I loved in the old earth? Now in my forties, I have a great deal of confidence that I will see my beloved pets raised. God is able and I can't imagine any reason He would not do so. It's just the kind of thing He would do and it would seem like an obvious and simple part of wiping every tear from my eyes. What About Animals? (By Ed Smith)

I don't know about all the animals that have ever lived, but I certainly think that the animals loved by His children will live again. Since we will have cats and dogs, why would he avoid the cats and dogs which we have loved and make entirely new and different ones? When I have a child and his pet dies, what would I do if I had a choice? Giving a bereaved child a new, healthy pet may comfort him, but not fully. Raising the old one would do the trick 100%. What About Animals? (By Ed Smith)
From http://www.biblicaluniversalist.com/Animals.html

God is Love
1Jo 4:8 he who is not loving did not know God, because God is Love

Love comes from God. Surely the love we feel for animals comes from God. If it comes from God then surely he would want to raise the animals from the dead, because he Loves them also.

Well, I did say there would be one more round up part and at least that is correct, but it maybe split other two posts....it has grown.....to finish up, I will have additional notes, and cover more indepth Romans 8:19-21 and that should be the end....

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All WILL BE SAVED? part 17, By Dark Knight

Additional Notes


This section of the topic covers things I have find, but not included in the study so far, this is because I have find them after posting the section of the study that they belong to.
First up:

A note on mediums:

As I already explained, people who have already died, are asleep. Hence the following warning:

This is also one of the reasons why God warns against spirit mediums and the like in His Law, because demons, who are deceiving spirits that belong to the kingdom of darkness, are very often the real source of so-called 'contact of the dead,' although many mediums and so-called psychics are just plain tricksters. 'Alien encounters' and other forms of Channelling also fall into the same deception. Humans in death are asleep.From http://www.purposeoflife.org.uk/hell%20doc.htm

more Scripture support for Universalism

2Cor.5:18-20 Yet all is of God,
Who conciliates us to Himself through Christ,
and is giving us the dispensation of the conciliation,
how that God was in Christ, conciliating the world to Himself,
not reckoning their offenses to them,
and placing in us the word of the conciliation.
For Christ, then, are we ambassadors, as of God entreating through us.
We are beseeching for Christ's sake, "Be conciliated to God!"

Notice God was in Christ, conciliating the world to Himself, Not just those who believe. Believes are conciliated to God through Christ. And unbelievers will also be conciliated to God through Christ, and the ambassadors (believers) are to spread this message. You don’t hear a lot of Christians spreading this message, and it is not something you usually hear when you go to church.

Rom.3:22,23 … 22 yet a righteousness of God through Jesus Christ's faith, for all, and on all who are believing, for there is no distinction, for all sinned and are wanting of the glory of God

Notice all sinned, but there is a righteousness for all….

For "the Father loveth the Son, and hath given ALL THINGS into His hand" (John 3:35) and Jesus declares "All that the Father giveth me shall come to me and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.... And this is the Father's
WILL, which hath sent me, that of ALL which He hath given me I SHOULD LOSE NOTHING, but should raise it up again at the last day." John 6:37-39

From http://www.goodnewsaboutgod.com/studies/judgment2.htm

Notice the Son, Jesus, has already everybody, ALL has been given into his hand. And this all, that’s everybody will come to him……

Mark 9:49 For everyone will be salted with fire, and every sacrifice will be salted with salt

Not only will everyone be salted with fire, but Jesus also said that every sacrifice will be salted with salt. Now we all know that salt is a preservative and an antiseptic, and it is also a seasoning for food. In the law of Moses, every grain offering, also termed a sacrifice, had to be seasoned with salt (Leviticus 2:13). The salt represents the goodness of God's Law and character. Jesus said that His followers are to be the salt of the earth (Matthew 5:13). We are to be living sacrifices, salted with the salt of goodness, grace and peace.

...present your bodies a sacrifice, living, holy, well pleasing to God, your logical divine service... (Romans 12:1-2)

...offer up spiritual sacrifices, most acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. (1 Peter 2:5)

Let your conversation be always full of grace, seasoned with salt... (Colossians 4:6 NIV)

"Have salt in yourselves and be at peace with one another." (Mark 9:50)

From http://www.purposeoflife.org.uk/hell%20doc.htm

Notice here again that it is everyone, and it is done by fire…..

Here below it is shown again that people go to be tormented, but not forever:

"...And, being indignant, his lord gives him up to the tormentors (jailers) till he may pay all he is owing him. Thus shall My heavenly Father also be doing to you, if each one should not be pardoning his brother, from your hearts." (Matthew 18:34-35)

In the Parable of the Unmerciful Servant in Matthew 18:21-35, Jesus said that the unmerciful and unforgiving servant was angrily turned over to the jailers by his master until he should pay back all he owed. He went on to say, 'This is how my heavenly Father will treat each of you unless you forgive your brother from your heart.'….

…..This parable is describing something of the future judgment of God in which the unmerciful, unforgiving person shall receive age-abiding chastening in torment under the indignation of God until he has paid for his wicked acts, for we shall all be judged in accordance with our acts, whether good or bad. This is not eternal or everlasting - it will come to an end one day, otherwise it is not just!
From http://www.purposeoflife.org.uk/hell%20doc.htm

Here it is again, the Heaven Father (God), gives up people to the tormentors, but it does not last forever.

Death abolished
1Co 15: 25 For He must be reigning until He should be placing all His enemies under His feet.
26 The last enemy is being abolished: death.
The last enemy to be not only subjected but abolished completely is Death, which means ALL must be given immortality, that is, Life.
From http://www.purposeoflife.org.uk/hell%20doc.htm

Death is to be completely be abolished, everyone is to be given immortality, that is, Life and that would include Animals…..

Now a look again at: What happens in the Lake of fire…???: Before we covered the fire and the BRIMSTONE, but not we look at the fact that it is a lake.

The vision of Revelation is full of spiritual signs and symbols which are deeply rooted in the Hebrew Scriptures, especially as it relates to the Temple services. Outside the Temple of Solomon was the brazen Sea. This was a huge bowl of water for the priests to wash themselves for their ceremonial cleansing (1 Kings 7:23-26; 2 Chronicles 4:6). Now in the New Testament we read about the Sea of Galilee, which is really a Lake. It is describing a huge expanse of water. So we can already see that the Lake of Fire is related to the brazen Sea as a means of cleansing or purification……

We've already established earlier that the fire of God is His Law, His justice, His righteousness. The Greek word for fire is pur from which we get such words as purify and purge. Natural fire has this effect on materials that can stand the test of fire, such as gold and silver. These metals can be purified by fire to get rid of all the dross, the unwanted, impure alloys. So we have two witnesses, from nature and Scripture, to show us that fire cleanses and purifies, and so does water. In the Lake of Fire we have the picture of both in a powerful, figurative image.

From http://www.purposeoflife.org.uk/hell%20doc.htm

A Note on the colour of the Throne:

It is also evident from Scripture that there is a place for God's vengeance to be made manifest, for He hates all wickedness and lawlessness, and all wrongs need to be put right. But we must remember that His throne of judgment is a white throne. He is a just and righteous Judge Who is also Love and Light. His Love for us ALL has already been expressed through the ministry and Sacrifice of His Son. Therefore, any destruction and anger of God upon humans must ultimately have a loving remedial effect in the New Creation, for He has the heart of a perfect Father, and all of humanity are His children whom He loves very much. He cannot remain angry 'forever,' and His heart will not be satisfied until every one of His stubborn children have been brought back into His loving arms.From http://www.purposeoflife.org.uk/hell%20doc.htm

Entire creation/ every creature
Mark 16: 15 And He said to them, "Go into all the world; herald the evangel to the entire creation. (CLV)

15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. (KJV)

Notice the gospel is to be preached to all of creation, not just mankind…..

UP coming the final part....or is it...yes it is....part 18, I will cover Romans 8:19-21, and finish up.....see you all in Heaven...

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All WILL BE SAVED? part 18, By Dark Knight

The Final Part


Romans 8:19-21
Lets finish this study by look at Romans 8:19-21 Note this study closely follows the information at http://www.all-creatures.org/ach/book-p4-1.html and the work done there…..and a large part is a copy of that….that page has a number of translations of Romans 8:19-21, hence in the study it will list the different translations of words used, however I will not post all those translations…I have post just one from the site, and two altogether….note the Concordant version is not post at http://www.all-creatures.org/ach/book-p4-1.html…..

Romans 8:19-21” For the earnest expectation of the creation eagerly waits for the revealing of the sons of God….because the creation itself also will be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God”. (NEW KINGS JAMES VERSION).

Romans 8: 19 For the premonition of the creation is awaiting the unveiling of the sons of God.
20 For to vanity was the creation subjected, not voluntarily, but because of Him Who subjects it, in expectation
21 that the creation itself, also, shall be freed from the slavery of corruption into the glorious freedom of the children of God. (Concordant version)

The word creation in some other translations is translated Universe / Creature / All nature and is translated from the original Greek word KTISIS which means ‘all creation’, everything that God made, the complete creative acts of God.

Romans 8:38-39
Romans 8:38-39 “For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, neither angels, nor demons, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, 39 nor height, nor depth, nor any other Creature, κτίσις KTISIS, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord”. (King James Version).

So! The Writer hopes that you the reader can accept that “Creature/Creation” means - all things that our God has created (including the physical universe with all of it’s ramifications) and not just Human Beings.
From http://www.all-creatures.org/ach/book-p4-1.html

Notice that all God has created waits for the revealing/ unveiling of the sons of God.

sons of God is translated from the Greek word HUIOS
children of God/God’s children in Romans 8:21. is translated from τέκνον teknon.
Some people give the same meaning to these words, but there is a difference.

huios* in verse 19 is referring primarily to a descendent – not necessarily good or evil - huios* is translated child in Acts 13:10

Acts 13:10 “…thou child of the devil, thou enemy of all righteousness, wilt thou not cease to pervert the right ways of the Lord?”
Galations 4:30 “Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son huios*: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son huios* of the freewoman
So! We can be assured that the huios* God’s sons/sons of God/sonship/His sons. In Romans 8:19 does not in any way nesessarily refer to righteous people, but simply to the whole of humanity in general.
From http://www.all-creatures.org/ach/book-p4-1.html

So! Here we have all creation, which is awaiting the unveiling of all humanity.

For the rest of the study lets refer to http://www.all-creatures.org/ach/book-p4-1.html , there they have listed a number of different translations of Romans 8:19-21

revealing/ unveiling - these are translated from the Greek word àποκáλυфις APOKALUPSIS which words include appearing in 1 Peter 1:7.
àποκáλυфις APOKALUPSIS means an uncovering – laying bare – a revealing. It is the first word in the book of Revelation which is why “Revelation” is called the Apocalypse.
Its/Itself (referring to all of creation) is αυτη AUTOS – itself (not himself or themselves).
Freed/Delivered/Liberated/Set free/Be freed is ελευθερόω ELEUTHEROŌ – the same word used in six other scriptures – John 8:32,36 – Romans 6:18,22 – Romans 8:2 – Galatians 5:1.
Delivered is ὲ λευθερόω ELEUTHEROŌ meaning to make or set free.
Mortality/Corruption/Decay/Decadence, are translated from фθορά PHTHORA meaning, subject to death.
Liberty/Freedom comes from ελευθερíα ELEUTHERIA meaning a Slave being given his/her freedom.

So! Here is KTISIS (all creation) waiting for the revealing of huios* (all humanity) to be delivered from corruption into the glorious liberty of children of God/God’s children in Romans 8:21. which is translated from τέκνον teknon which is a synonim of huios* with a different shade of meaning as in the following verses:

John 1:12-13 “Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God 13 children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.” (N.I.V.)

Romans 8:17 “And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be glorified together.”

So! Now we have κτίσις KTISIS (all creation), waiting for the HUIOS* (every human ever created), to be revealed - all waiting for τέκνον teknon (The Bride/Saints/called up/chosen ones [the redeemed – the adopted “sons of God”]) to be revealed at our Lord’s second coming.

So! The first event in this scenario of all scenarious is the calling up into the air of the chosen ones.
Both dead and alive – AND THEIR PETS or other beloved creatures which they want with them during their ruling capacity in the millennium and later on in Eternity.
From http://www.all-creatures.org/ach/book-p4-1.html

Conclusion

Revelation 21:4 "And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away. And He that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new.
5 And He said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful."

SO! This part 1 of this dissertation enters eternity with every creature (that has ever been conceived, born, or created by God) renewed and living wondrously happy lives in infinite endless stable universes (both spiritual and physical) with so much to do there can never ever be any boredom (or of course if you just want to sit and chaw for a while on the old verandah of one of your great mansions about the greatness of our God and our King – then you can just sit and chaw); and with the trip to your town house in the City every eternal Sabbath to renew glories with the GODHEADFrom http://www.all-creatures.org

I thought I would use the above qoute to nicely end the topic...you are invited to my great mansion for a party....sometime in the future......see you there.... :wink:

Sites used in this discussion
“Christ Triumphant”, by Thomas Allin, is a book, it is on-line at http://www.tentmaker.org/books/ChristTriumphant.htm
http://bible-truths.com/lazarus.html
http://www.savior-of-all.com
http://www.what-the-hell-is-hell.com/

http://home.hawaii.rr.com/graceuniversa ... 0Times.htm
http://www.gospelrevolution.com/church_sign1.htm
http://www.godoftheages.com/
http://www.martinzender.com/zenderature.htm
http://www.all-creatures.org
http://www.purposeoflife.org.uk
http://www.biblicaluniversalist.com/Animals.html

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Dark Knight
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Post by Dark Knight »

Will I Make it to Heaven?

Everyone is always worried about whether they're going to "get to heaven." "How do I make sure I'm going to be there?!" People say that Universal Restoration means we don't have to pray for people because, if Universal Restoration is correct, EVERYONE is going to be saved anyway.

But that misses the real point! Because that assumes that it's NOT FAR BETTER to be with Christ NOW while here on earth! We want to pray without ceasing that our friends and relatives accept Christ NOW so they can be with Christ NOW on this earth, as well as for eternity.

That's what the parable of the Prodigal Son is all about. The son who stayed home said to his father "I stuck around here all these years with you and didn't go out and have "fun" like my brother (who, of course, ended up living with the pigs! Some fun!) "And you're giving my brother the same reward you're giving me (son-ship) plus you're giving him a big "welcome home" party. I'm upset!!"

And the father replies "Hasn't it been better to be here with me all this time? If you don't think there's any advantage to being with me NOW - EVERY DAY- then you haven't gotten the picture yet! In fact, you really have NEVER been with me. You've just been going through the motions, waiting to get my fortune (reward of eternal life). Depart from Me, I NEVER knew you!"
From http://www.goodnewsaboutgod.com/studies/judgment2.htm

Everyone will get to heaven, but each in there own order....

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