Homosexuality

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Are you for or against Gay Marriage?

Yes, I strongly support it.
4
20%
No, I'm firmly against it.
6
30%
I don't really care; whatever floats your boat.
10
50%
What's gay marriage?
0
No votes
 
Total votes: 20

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Magus
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Post by Magus »

I never said I wished to force my beliefs onto everybody. People should be respected. I hope people will respect the differences of others. But I think that I am far from forcing anybody to believing anything. I just present the information as I see it and defend my own beliefs. How somebody else takes my opinions is entirely their prerogative.

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Post by Anthentar »

That's my own problem with the respecting everyone else's beliefs. Now granted I have a great respect for the religious and patriotic beliefs of anyone... but I cannot bring myself to understand, and therefore respect, hardline left-wingers (facists and communists) and anarchists.

When you have a view about a perfect world that involves everyone respecting everyone else's beliefs, you can never take any action about that... which annoys me. Personally, I consider myself a realist: I set realistic, and yet challenging goals for myslef and the human race, but have no views of a perfect world that can't actually exist for us
"He who fights with monsters should be careful lest he thereby become one. And if you gaze long into an abyss, the abyss will also gaze into you." - Beyond Good and Evil, aphorism 146

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Post by Magus »

You can respect a person's opinion without agreeing it. Hell, you can even outright attack it and still respect it. All I really ask from people is to show respect for such opinions but also, by the same token, to make theirs respectable. For me, that means logic, reason and motive behind one's opinion.

Anyway, the conversation drifted a little bit there.

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Post by Jade »

Magus wrote:Anyway, the conversation drifted a little bit there.


I think it's very relative to homosexuality, actually. It's important to remember that just because one feels strongly about their stance on whether homosexuality is or isn't natural, that person should be respected. Even if it may be offensive to one's moral beliefs.

Let's focus the discussion a bit, shall we? :wink:

Do you believe that being homosexual is a conscious, active choice, or that is an inborn trait in people? This would lead into the "naturalness" of homosexuality. I know some people have adressed this in some of the posts up until now, but I'd like to have a more in-depth discussion on it.

Any objections?
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Post by Dark Knight »

Magus wrote:
He said, "We are not the Church of the elite. Christ did not choose to preach to the enlightened, to the saved. He went to the sinners and preached to them, because we are not a church of the Pure. Pat Robertson leads a church of the pure. Christ did not and neither should we."


Yes he preached to sinners......

But he also told them..... "sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee."

"Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more."

and he called them to repentance:

"for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance."

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Post by who me »

Anthentar wrote: (besides, name one fish that ever walked on land anyway)


fish that can walk on land
northern snakehead (Channa argus). snakeheads could walk on land; survive out of water for days. has a torpedo-shaped body that tapers towards the tail. Young are golden brown to pale gray in color, turning dark brown and developing black splotches as they age. Other distinguishing characteristics are long dorsal and anal fins, small head, and large mouth. Adults can grow up to 1.2 meters long and weigh up to 15 pounds.


A number of African as well as Indian catfish species belonging to the family Clariidae have more or less amphibious habits. These fishes are able to move over land from a desiccating pond to another body of water.Shoals of Clarias lazera may leave water temporarily for a walk over dry land without being forced to do so by drought (Welman, 1948). Welman (1948) observed that the fishes "wriggled through the grass with snake-like movements."

Periophthalmus argentilineatus: "Visitors to the mangrove swamps and mud-flats of the Tropics are sometimes surprised at the sight of groups of small fishes, averaging 10cm (four inches) in length, crawling and hopping over the exposed mud quite far from the safety of the water...It spends more time skipping across the mudflats than swimming in the water. It will even climb up a mangrove tree in search of food. Mudskippers spend most of their time out of the water, but they need to keep their skin moist. When they get too dry, they roll in puddles, and wipe their eye with a wet fin. These fish can move much faster on land than in the water. They hunt energetically for small creatures, such as insects."

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Post by Havoc »

who me wrote:
Anthentar wrote: (besides, name one fish that ever walked on land anyway)


fish that can walk on land
northern snakehead (Channa argus). snakeheads could walk on land; survive out of water for days. has a torpedo-shaped body that tapers towards the tail. Young are golden brown to pale gray in color, turning dark brown and developing black splotches as they age. Other distinguishing characteristics are long dorsal and anal fins, small head, and large mouth. Adults can grow up to 1.2 meters long and weigh up to 15 pounds.


A number of African as well as Indian catfish species belonging to the family Clariidae have more or less amphibious habits. These fishes are able to move over land from a desiccating pond to another body of water.Shoals of Clarias lazera may leave water temporarily for a walk over dry land without being forced to do so by drought (Welman, 1948). Welman (1948) observed that the fishes "wriggled through the grass with snake-like movements."

Periophthalmus argentilineatus: "Visitors to the mangrove swamps and mud-flats of the Tropics are sometimes surprised at the sight of groups of small fishes, averaging 10cm (four inches) in length, crawling and hopping over the exposed mud quite far from the safety of the water...It spends more time skipping across the mudflats than swimming in the water. It will even climb up a mangrove tree in search of food. Mudskippers spend most of their time out of the water, but they need to keep their skin moist. When they get too dry, they roll in puddles, and wipe their eye with a wet fin. These fish can move much faster on land than in the water. They hunt energetically for small creatures, such as insects."


Damn, I was going to say that.
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Post by Magus »

Seems like a lot of rebuttals from previous arguments.

:rofl:

Anyway, like I said before studies have shown that there is a physiological difference in the brain between homosexual individuals and heterosexual ones. There really is no conscious choice about it from their findings.

I remember I was waiting for some show to come on a long time ago and was subsequently forced to watch the last five minutes of The 700 Club, gah how this show annoys me. Well they were talking to some guy he said he was gay but he switched over and is now happily married with children. But homosexual men have put up false pretenses before and still do now to the very extent this guy suggested was his life, due to the stigma society at large brands them with. Plus, how convincing is his testimony when he's being paid to appear? I'd bet almost anything he was bisexual.

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Post by Ariel »

From the gay people that I've known, some have tried desperately to fight their sexual preference, almost to the point of suicide, until they were able to accept themselves as they are. Society lacks compassion. I believe these people are born the way they are.

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Post by Neurolanis »

Anthentar:

When you have a view about a perfect world that involves everyone respecting everyone else's beliefs, you can never take any action about that... which annoys me. Personally, I consider myself a realist: I set realistic, and yet challenging goals for myslef and the human race, but have no views of a perfect world that can't actually exist for us


I don't understand your point of view, truly. Are you cynical, or is there a logic behind it? I've known others have the same view, it seems, and I just don't understand. Do you think people are helpless so we shouldn't set our goals too high? What you sometimes think of as idealistic to me is logic, and what you sometimes call logic to me is cyncical... maybe I just don't understand.

Magus:

Anyway, like I said before studies have shown that there is a physiological difference in the brain between homosexual individuals and heterosexual ones. There really is no conscious choice about it from their findings.


Well, as far as I can see what works in the emotions translates in the brain (i.e. if you're depressed, the depression appears in the brain as a literal strain.) So of course there would be a difference. I don't see what this proves, unless it's proven of brains of newborn children.

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Post by Anthentar »

I said realistic, yet challenging. For instance... the abolition of armed conflict... it's not possible, so why bother. On the other hand, the colonization of Mars, or the devellopment of better recycling technologies are not only possible, but inevitable. Realistic, yet challenging goals

As to the perfect world, I firmly believe that what is commonly said to be a perfect world, cannot actually exist. We aren't perfect, so our world can't be perfect. Simple as that. Those who strive for a perfect world have set a goal that they, nor anyone else could ever reach... so I don't bother to set such a goal. What's the point in setting a goal that you can't possibly ever reach. Instead, I'll set a goal that can be attained, but will still make a difference in the daily lives of the people.

And as to the fish... well who me just shut me up there. I take it back. But the comments are still up for debate
"He who fights with monsters should be careful lest he thereby become one. And if you gaze long into an abyss, the abyss will also gaze into you." - Beyond Good and Evil, aphorism 146

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Post by Magus »

:rofl:

I think Who Me shut EVERYBODY up with the fish.

:wink:

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